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Author Topic:   Deflation-gate
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 76 of 466 (748881)
01-30-2015 5:05 PM


More Experimental Results
One NFL leak reported that the Patriot ball attendant disappeared into a small bathroom for 90 seconds. It's alleged that that's where the deflation must have occurred.
I took a football and an inflation needle attached to a hose. I placed my football on the counter to my right and started my stopwatch. I took the football and placed it in front of me, stuck the needle in for somewhere around 1 or 2 seconds, removed the needle, then replaced the football to my right. I did this a total of 11 times. Total duration: 76 seconds, or 14 seconds less than the 90 seconds the attendant spent in the bathroom.
Since in my experiment there was only one football, and since it was always in the correct orientation, I never had to rotate it to find the inflation hole. Since it was only one football, I never had to find room for 11 more footballs. The football never rolled around, fell off the counter, or moved in any way other than when I moved it myself.
If the ball attendant deflated the footballs, which are kept in a duffel bag, then he needed to take no more than 1 or 2 seconds to actually adjust the pressure, and he could not have taken more than 14 seconds to open the duffel bag, remove the footballs, and put them back in the duffel bag. It took me 15 seconds to mimic the motion of removing a football from a duffel bag 11 times. Naturally since there was no actual football involved, no football ever slipped out of my hands, fell on the floor, or whatever else is possible.
11 footballs in 90 seconds? He must be very good.
Of course, the ball attendant could have followed a different process. Once in the bathroom he could have opened the duffel bag, knelt beside it, then reaching into the duffel bag and grabbing each football consecutively pulled it to the opening, deflated it, then let it go and grabbed the next. It would have been difficult for him to keep track of which footballs he deflated while they were still in the bag, though he apparently missed only one. I couldn't run any experiments on this scenario because I don't have a duffel bag and I don't have twelve footballs.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by NoNukes, posted 01-31-2015 2:13 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 80 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 6:34 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 466 (748910)
01-31-2015 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Percy
01-29-2015 8:02 AM


Re: Wilson, The Football company disagrees
Yes it is, assuming we don't care about temperature variations of a degree or two that are common in most climate controlled buildings.
The temperature of the air inside the balls is a function of room temperature and the pumping equipment used to inflate them. As I understand it, the team has control of the balls up until a couple of hours before game time. The balls may or may not be stored in a heated room up until the time the referees get them. Your assumption is that the room involved is temperature controlled, but who says that must be the case? And if the ball is at a proper pressure, the referee does not do anything to the balls at all. The balls are checked once and then returned to the teams. I'm guessing that the time spent with the footballs by refs is as short as possible.
I'm just throwing things out there that might explain the differences between the Colt's balls, the Patriots first 12 balls and the last 12 balls in a way that does not involve malfeasance. But perhaps there is no way to explain it.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Percy, posted 01-29-2015 8:02 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 78 of 466 (748911)
01-31-2015 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Percy
01-30-2015 5:05 PM


Re: More Experimental Results
One NFL leak reported that the Patriot ball attendant disappeared into a small bathroom for 90 seconds. It's alleged that that's where the deflation must have occurred.
Yes, that's one report. Unfortunately there are scores of bad info from "sources" and one might do well to ignore most of the stuff. There was one report earlier this week from a source that said that the refs did not even check the balls before the game.
But if we are going to speculate that the detour was deliberate, we might as well speculate that there could have been any number of no good ball tamperers and horse thieving rustlers inside that bathroom before the balls ever got there.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Percy, posted 01-30-2015 5:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 79 of 466 (748949)
01-31-2015 7:35 PM


Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
So, it turns out the whole inflate-gate story was cooked up by the NFL to try and boost the number of viewers watching the game......

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 7:04 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 80 of 466 (748992)
02-01-2015 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Percy
01-30-2015 5:05 PM


Re: More Experimental Results
One NFL leak reported that the Patriot ball attendant disappeared into a small bathroom for 90 seconds. It's alleged that that's where the deflation must have occurred.
I wonder if anyone thought this is about the same time it takes to take a leak and wash your hands.
I did this a total of 11 times. Total duration: 76 seconds, or 14 seconds less than the 90 seconds the attendant spent in the bathroom.
Yes, but did you wash your hands afterward?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Percy, posted 01-30-2015 5:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 81 of 466 (748995)
02-01-2015 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Tanypteryx
01-31-2015 7:35 PM


Re: Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
...inflate-gate story was cooked up by the NFL to try and boost the number of viewers...
I didn't see this brought up anywhere. Where did this come from?
I wouldn't think the league would do such a dumb thing since their revenues do not depend on the TV rating for the game, especially since it involves soiling the reputation of a premier team as well as the entire league which can only cost them in the long run.
I think this is a media-driven hyped-up non-story. If anyone benefits from viewership it will be NBC and its advertisers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-31-2015 7:35 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-01-2015 11:37 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 82 of 466 (749039)
02-01-2015 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by AZPaul3
02-01-2015 7:04 AM


Re: Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
I think this is a media-driven hyped-up non-story. If anyone benefits from viewership it will be NBC and its advertisers.
I think you are right. This was non-news news. The NFL gets a big piece of the ad dollars.
Don't forget....the NFL is a non-profit whatever the fuck that means. They make BILLIONS and don't pay a dime in taxes. Those fucks think any publicity is good publicity.
I saw someone suggest that they cooked the whole thing up on one of the cable non-news channels and then it was repeated on facebook.
I thought it was funny, so I posted here. This place is getting boring.......

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 7:04 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 1:48 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 83 of 466 (749050)
02-01-2015 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Tanypteryx
02-01-2015 11:37 AM


Re: Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
You might be right, Tanypteryx. This is American big business, the very top of the 1%, and Maciavelli rules.
This place is getting boring.......
I'd hate to think we have driven off all those "interesting points of view" but I fear this may be the case. So now it's dueling dictionaries among the regular hoard. Hopefully this is just a lull and a new platter of creationist meat will arrive shortly. A good anti-relativist or a cosmology weirdo would be nice.
Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will come along with whom you can exchange Fried Damselfly recipes.
[ducking]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-01-2015 11:37 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-01-2015 1:54 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 84 of 466 (749051)
02-01-2015 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by AZPaul3
02-01-2015 1:48 PM


Re: Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
It's DRAGONflies not Damselflies. Damselflies are for pussies (Except for tropical Polythoridae).

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 1:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 3:17 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 85 of 466 (749059)
02-01-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Tanypteryx
02-01-2015 1:54 PM


Re: Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
It's DRAGONflies not Damselflies.
On a bed of Angel Hair with a butter sauce of white wine, capers and a touch of Summer Savory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-01-2015 1:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-01-2015 4:17 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(4)
Message 86 of 466 (749063)
02-01-2015 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by AZPaul3
02-01-2015 3:17 PM


Re: Whole thing cooked up by the NFL
On a bed of Angel Hair with a butter sauce of white wine, capers and a touch of Summer Savory.
White wine and capers, only if the wings are left on. If the wings are removed, a port wine and orange-ginger sauce is best.
Funny story.....years ago I was collecting along the John Day River in Eastern Oregon and there were bunches of Western River Cruisers, Macromia magnifica flying along shore. Normally we fold their wings over the back and slide them into special glassine envelopes that keep them alive and prevent damage. The envelopes then go into a collecting bag or box. Anyway, I caught one, but before I could get out an envelope another one was coming by, so I folded the wings together and slipped them between my lips. I caught the next one and here came another, so I slipped that one between my lips on the other side. Right after I caught the 3rd, a fly fisherman came along the trail. The look on his face when he saw me was hilarious. The he said, "How do they taste?" Of course I couldn't answer until I put them away.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2015 3:17 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 87 of 466 (749094)
02-02-2015 8:31 AM


More Info
This information must be considered as potentially unreliable as any other information, but amongst all the Superbowl coverage yesterday I did hear a couple times of a report that the ball attendant who disappeared into the bathroom was an older gentleman, and that it was 98 seconds, not 90.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by AZPaul3, posted 02-02-2015 8:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 89 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2015 10:19 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 88 of 466 (749095)
02-02-2015 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Percy
02-02-2015 8:31 AM


Re: More Info
If he was an older gentleman then of course it would have taken him longer to pee.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Percy, posted 02-02-2015 8:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 89 of 466 (749109)
02-02-2015 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Percy
02-02-2015 8:31 AM


Re: More Info
That info is from NFL.com
More details on the investigation of Patriots' deflated footballs

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Percy, posted 02-02-2015 8:31 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 90 of 466 (750609)
02-19-2015 7:53 AM


Yet Another Leak
While the NFL and lawyer/investigator Ted Wells decline comment until the investigation is complete, yesterday saw yet another leak, this one via Adam Schefter (see Adam Schefter: NFL Official Responsible For Tampering With AFC Championship Balls [VIDEO]). This leak is not about the playing balls, but about the special teams balls, the ones used for kickoffs, field goals and punts. Keeping in mind that there is still no way to judge the accuracy of the information, here is a summary of what Schefter said from the cited article:
NFL game balls are supposed to be auctioned off as part of a charitable endeavor, but a league official who had been stealing balls intended for charity and selling them for personal profit illegally removed a ball from the field. A second league official noticed the missing ball and went to go retrieve a replacement. At this juncture, the first official retrieved the ball he had removed from play and attempted to return it to the field before anyone else noticed. Both officials presented balls to [Patriots game-day employee Jim] McNally, who since he had no idea how to handle such a unique situation was behaving oddly enough to catch the attention of [NFL VP of Game Operations] Mike Kensil.
There's a problem with this account that needs to be pointed out. The account says that one official removed a special teams ball from the field, a ball that has the special mark added when it is checked by officials prior to the game. When this official realized that another official had noticed that a ball was missing, the first official retrieved the ball he had taken and handed it to Patriots game-day employee Jim McNally. But the official who noticed the ball was missing also retrieved a ball and handed it to McNally. It's impossible that both of these balls had the special approval mark, and it's also possible that neither had the mark.
This raises a couple questions:
  • Why would an NFL field official, who knows that he can't introduce an unapproved ball into the game, do this?
  • Why would NFL officials hand balls to McNally, who as an officials' locker room attendant doesn't have ball handling responsibilities during a game?
Adam Schefter is a highly respected sports reporter. He is usually very careful to get things right. He may only be passing on information as it was given to him without trying to address the questionable aspects. So I'm not trying to cast aspersions at Schefter when I say that this story doesn't add up. There's no way to know which parts are true, which parts are false, and what information is missing. Unfortunately we're not going to know the full story until the Wells report is released, and perhaps not even then.
--Percy

  
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