Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,808 Year: 3,065/9,624 Month: 910/1,588 Week: 93/223 Day: 4/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2211 of 2241 (749361)
02-03-2015 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2210 by jar
02-03-2015 10:36 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Quite true, we've left the topic, but as I'm sure you know I can produce the Bible support for my orthodox traditional view that Jesus died for our sins on this thread or elsewhere as you prefer.
Once we are saved then our deeds count and will count as part of our salvation, but not until we've received the salvation He paid for on the cross.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2210 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2212 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:46 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2213 of 2241 (749367)
02-03-2015 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2212 by jar
02-03-2015 10:46 PM


Re: back towards the topic
Only you can't produce your Bible support without pretending mine doesn't exist, whereas I can take yours into account along with mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2212 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:46 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2226 by jar, posted 02-04-2015 8:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2215 of 2241 (749374)
02-04-2015 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2214 by PaulK
02-04-2015 12:57 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
So Christianity is "different" because it's the only religion to offer a "solution" to a "problem it invented. That's not exactly a useful difference if you're trying to claim that Christianity is better than other religions.
abe: Christianity is not at all different or unique in recognition of sin and judgment and an afterlife that punishes sin; it's only unique in that it offers a solution to a problem that is universally recognized in one way or another. /abe
Since Christianity didn't invent Hell I assume you'll take your chances that all those other cultures and religions just made up the idea so you needn't bother about the offered solution. Your call, of course, but I rather think one might reasonably take some heed to the universal or near-universal concept of such an afterlife. But again, your call. Or maybe you think you are so good you wouldn't go there anyway.
abe: Christianity didn't invent the idea of sin and judgment either of course, it merely revealed its true reality, same as with Hell. Even the idea of "karma" is an expression of a universal law that inexorably judges us. Again, an imperfect idea which is presented more accurately in the Bible.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2214 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 12:57 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2216 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 1:45 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2217 of 2241 (749384)
02-04-2015 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 2216 by PaulK
02-04-2015 1:45 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Oh get real. Hell is universal, the problem is universal, only the solution is unique. There is NO solution worthy of the name solution offered anywhere, nothing even remotely similar to Jesus' taking all our sins on Himself and dying in our place. GET REAL.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2216 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 1:45 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2218 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:25 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2219 of 2241 (749387)
02-04-2015 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2218 by PaulK
02-04-2015 5:25 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
I said nothing about Calvin. Jesus died for our sins, not Calvin, and that is the core teaching of every branch of Christianity. Except weird revisionists like jar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2218 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2220 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:46 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2221 of 2241 (749389)
02-04-2015 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2220 by PaulK
02-04-2015 5:46 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
I left the Calvinism discussion when it was clear everybody was distorting it. This thread is not about Calvin. But why do you keep assuming you aren't one of the Elect? There is nothing even in the craziest forms of Calvinism that I know of that gives you warrant to assume that.
I'm very sorry you can't see the specialness of Christ dying for our sins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2220 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:46 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2222 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 6:08 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2225 by Golffly, posted 02-04-2015 8:14 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2223 of 2241 (749391)
02-04-2015 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2222 by PaulK
02-04-2015 6:08 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
You left the Calvinism discussion because you disagreed with Calvin.
No I disagreed with what was being said about what he meant. I left the Calvinism discussion when people were insisting he was saying things I don't believe he meant based on what I've learned over the years, but I'm not in a position to argue it so I got out of it. It's no different from disagreeing with jar who is always insisting that his reading of scripture is THE reading of scripture, allowing for no others. I'm not disagreeing with scripture, I'm disagreeing with jar but at some point there is no point in trying to argue about it. Be as sure as you like that you know what Calvin meant, the discussion is over for me.
With regard to election it really doesn't matter if I am Elect or not. If the statement "Jesus died for our sins" is only true when one of the Elect is speaking to others who are all also Elect, it is not a general truth, as other Christian denominations would claim. The Elect are a small minority.
See that's the problem with discussions about Calvinism, which I keep telling myself I'll never ever get into again and I'm sorry I did again. I've believed it because I believe it's Biblical but when others don't see it that way it only causes unnecessary problems and it's dangerous even to try to discuss it. it doesn't MATTER what Calvin said, forget Calvin.
THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHO ARE THE ELECT BEFORE THEY ARE SAVED. There is no way anyone could have guessed before I was saved that I could ever be saved, and looking back on it I'm truly amazed. I was about the last candidate for salvation I would have imagined. You CAN'T second-guess this stuff.
As for how many, don't assume anything about that either:
Rev 7:9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And really it's not a question of "seeing" how special the Christian"solution" to Hell is, it's a question of how to get from there to the conclusion that Christianity is likely to be true. And if that is just a subjective impression then it is not a good argument
Really, argument and debate are NOT the way people get saved.
How do you get from here to salvation by the cross: Believe, that's all. That's what scripture says, that's what Jesus taught. "Repent and believe the gospel." All that happened to me was that I suddenly believed it. I wasn't argued into it, I simply believed it when I understood it. You have no idea how powerful belief is until you believe.
abe: Mark 9:23-24 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2222 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 6:08 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2224 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 8:03 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 2227 by Golffly, posted 02-04-2015 8:58 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 2229 by jar, posted 02-04-2015 10:05 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 2230 by Golffly, posted 02-04-2015 12:53 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2231 of 2241 (749433)
02-04-2015 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2228 by Stile
02-04-2015 9:05 AM


Re: The end of all reason
It's like gold to brass and I can't even give it away, nobody can tell the difference, alas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2228 by Stile, posted 02-04-2015 9:05 AM Stile has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2232 of 2241 (749434)
02-04-2015 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2230 by Golffly
02-04-2015 12:53 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
You come up with so much nonsense I can't keep up with you either. Why is there a problem with God's anointing a special number for special purposes as versus the enormous number of believers that are shown after that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2230 by Golffly, posted 02-04-2015 12:53 PM Golffly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2234 by Golffly, posted 02-04-2015 6:37 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2235 of 2241 (749447)
02-04-2015 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2234 by Golffly
02-04-2015 6:37 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
I answered you, no excuses, don't get your problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2234 by Golffly, posted 02-04-2015 6:37 PM Golffly has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 2240 of 2241 (749525)
02-05-2015 3:09 PM


2 Peter 3:16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest [twist, distort], as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Psalm 56:5 Every day they wrest [twist, distort] my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil.

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024