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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
edge Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Oh good grief. Why is this so difficul?. It wouldn't erode flat if it was tilted, but even if it was tilted it would be nothing like tilted STRATA.
But it is tilted. Do you know how I can tell? Do you think I would have shown you this picture if I didn't check?
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edge Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Stand them upright or on a tilt and see if they'll erode flat on the top the way the tilted strata at the base of the G.U. have flat surfaces.
The are standing upright, or nearly so. Or have you just moved the goal posts again. Now the layers have to be vertical? Are we going to spend the next 3 pages of this thread debating what is 'tilted'?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You've given a series of straw man answers. Nothing but denial and evasion. But what on earth could I possibly have expected here anyway? Masters of obfuscation.
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edge Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
You've given a series of straw man answers.
How so? You wanted flat surfaces eroded into dipping strata. What did I miss?
Nothing but denial and evasion.
What did I deny?
But what on earth could I possibly have expected here anyway? Masters of obfuscation.
Well, one thing we have learned to not expect is civil discourse. Why not address my images?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Your last image is of a naturally occurring flat surface as is the other one you posted of a cliff behind a beach. What's the rock?
The image of the strata is just weird. They are jagged and they are not upright or tilted so the jagged ends of the strata could be eroded to a flat horizontal surface. You either don't understand the problem or you are intentionally obfuscating. I refer you back to Message 213. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Find something like this with a flat horizontal surface without the upper strata:
OR this one:
Just the tilted lower part without the upper. It's got to have a level upper surface. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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edge Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Find something like this with a flat horizontal surface without the upper strata:
Like I said, 'flat' is relative to scale. If you look closely at that surface, it's not exactly table-top flat, certainly not more so than some of the pictures I have provided. Besides, who is saying that unconformities are table-top flat? Besides you?
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edge Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Your last image is of a naturally occurring flat surface as is the other one you posted of a cliff behind a beach. What's the rock?
So you are saying that erosion is not a natural phenomenon? How do you think those layers (some kind of metasediments) got truncated at the top?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm not concerned about how table-top flat the surface is, it's flat enough in your pictures but they are of the kind of rock that would have a naturally occurring flat upper surface. ABE: Strata depositing on top of such a natural flat surface would not create an angular unconformity.
The problem is that you don't have pictures of tilted strata such as the G.U. has as its base. OR of lumpy rock like schist which is its base in other pictures. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 878 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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I am not sure why it can't have strata above it. Does the strata above somehow flatten it? But how about these?
They all have tilted strata, no horizontal strata on top of them and are as flat as the GU. What else? HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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edge Member (Idle past 1726 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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The problem is that you don't have pictures of tilted strata such as the G.U. has as its base. OR of lumpy rock like schist which is its base in other pictures.
Actually, they are tilted as the yellow highlighted layers show in this picture. The lighter colored bands are the surfaces of bedding planes tilted to the left and reflecting light from that direction.
I'm not concerned about how table-top flat the surface is, it's flat enough in your pictures but they are of the kind of rock that would have a naturally occurring flat upper surface.
Of course they are naturally occurring. What do you mean?
ABE: Strata depositing on top of such a natural flat surface would not create an angular unconformity.
As I have said, I chose all photos to show tilted strata. You can deny that all you want, but it just isn't so. Even in the gently dipping case, the layers show patterns that indicate the layers are not parallel to the weathered surface.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I am not sure why it can't have strata above it. Does the strata above somehow flatten it? But how about these Because we want to show the base before it became an angular unconformity, since my claim is that the base would not have been eroded to the level straightness seen in the G.U. before the strata above were deposited on it. The other pictures are pretty good, except the first one and that farm, but I would guess they were all once angular unconformities and not just eroded tilted strata. However, you came up with some examples so you win. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 878 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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Something else explains those flat contacts we see in the Great Unconformity. I would like to hear what this "something else" might be. I have an idea what you have in mind, but would rather you describe it before I guess at what you're thinking. Also keep in mind that any surface exposed to erosion today is in the process of being eroded. Erosion is not finished sculpting it. Deposition will not begin until the surface is low enough to begin accumulating sediment. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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So we'd be looking for something like this ...
Or this ...
Or this ...
Or this ...
Or this ...
Or the flat bits of this ...
Or this ...
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Something else explains those flat contacts we see in the Great Unconformity.
I would like to hear what this "something else" might be. I have an idea what you have in mind, but would rather you describe it before I guess at what you're thinking. I've given my own scenario a million times already: After ALL the strata had been laid down, tectonic movement at the level of the basement rocks pushed them into folds that were sheared off by abrasion in contact with the upper strata at a point where the resistance of the weight above equaled the force from beneath, leaving the upper block of strata intact. That's the only alternative scenario I can think of, but perhaps there are others.
Also keep in mind that any surface exposed to erosion today is in the process of being eroded. Erosion is not finished sculpting it. Deposition will not begin until the surface is low enough to begin accumulating sediment. The lines I drew on the G.U. in Message 213 suggest to me a horizontal level straightness that erosion could never accomplish, but I've done all I can to argue this point so it's over. Edge never understood it, at least you finally did, but this has been just about the most frustrating and unrewarding discussion I've ever had here and I don't want another one. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : REWORD FOR CLARITY
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