Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 151 (8310 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 05-23-2015 7:52 AM
74 online now:
AZPaul3, herebedragons, PaulK, Percy (Admin), RAZD (5 members, 69 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: maur3en58
Post Volume:
Total: 757,209 Year: 12,175/30,875 Month: 1,269/2,101 Week: 313/423 Day: 9/56 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
949596
97
9899Next
Author Topic:   The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 13376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 1441 of 1485 (754359)
03-26-2015 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1439 by Faith
03-26-2015 1:34 AM


Re: try actually thinking you all
According to one of the videos I posted he has said both at different times.

There are also videos on the Internet saying that Bush was behind 9/11.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1439 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 1:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 13376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 1442 of 1485 (754360)
03-26-2015 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1440 by Faith
03-26-2015 1:35 AM


Re: How gullible you all are
HARVARD OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS. THIS WAS A HARVARD PUBLICATION

Uh ... no. The agency Acton & Dystel (now Dystel & Goderich) is a completely ordinary literary agency, and, like all the other literary agencies, is entirely unaffiliated with Harvard University and is indeed located over 200 miles away from it in another state. There is no conceivable sense in which this was a "Harvard publication".

Now, perhaps you could think again about how it is possible for people to make mistakes. How did you come to be so convinced of this obvious and palpable falsehood that you proclaimed it loudly in public and in capital letters? Was it because you have seen "official documents" proving that Acton & Dystel is Harvard University? Or did you, y'know, make a mistake?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1440 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 1:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1443 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 2:11 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 19020
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1443 of 1485 (754361)
03-26-2015 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Dr Adequate
03-26-2015 1:54 AM


Re: How gullible you all are
He's identified as the editor of the Harvard Law Review on the same page that the bio is given about birth in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.

My mistake is trivial, but that statement is just way too precise to be a mistake.

But I know now much you need to believe it and I really don't care. Lie all you want.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-26-2015 1:54 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1444 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-26-2015 2:16 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 13376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 1444 of 1485 (754362)
03-26-2015 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1443 by Faith
03-26-2015 2:11 AM


Re: How gullible you all are
He's identified as the editor of the Harvard Law Review on the same page that the bio is given about birth in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.

My mistake is trivial, but that statement is just way too precise to be a mistake.

Your statement was precise. You didn't write "IT WAS A HARVARD PUBLICATION, OR MAYBE YALE OR PRINCETON". But it was not too precise to be a mistake.

Lie all you want.

Is that your way of saying: "Thank you, Dr A, for pointing out that what I just proclaimed to be true, in public and in capital letters, was in fact totally false"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1443 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 2:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 13376
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(4)
Message 1445 of 1485 (754364)
03-26-2015 2:41 AM


How It Happened
So, we're beginning to get the picture of what must have happened. The year is 1991, and Miriam Goderich is a youthful assistant at Acton & Dystel. Junior though she is, she has been charged with the crucial task of writing a promotional booklet. Mr. Dystel himself has impressed on her the importance of absolute factual accuracy. "Some day, young lady", he said to her "the very destiny of the nation may rest on you getting every last detail right".

And so one fateful hour she comes to write the author bio for Barack Obama, and realizes she doesn't know where he was born. Now, at this point she might have asked him, he would have said "Hawaii", and his secret would have been safe. But fortunately for us, she had received a heavy blow to the head earlier that day, and being therefore somewhat confused and irrational, she decided instead to drive 200 miles to Cambridge, Massachusetts, to look it up in the Official Harvard Archives.

At first the archivist is obstructive, pointing out that the student files are confidential. But "I'm a literary agent", Goderich explains, flashing her badge, "now show me the file or I'll have you run in for obstructing literature."

Luckily for her, Harvard University keeps records of the exact birthplaces of all their students --- I have no idea why, but for the purposes of this narrative it's necessary that they do so. Let's not get bogged down with things like facts and plausibility. And so it was that Goderich's eyes lit on the word KENYA. The truth was out!

But then we must ask ourselves how KENYA got into the file in the first place. Obama, let me explain once more for Faith's benefit, is not a Birther. He would have written HAWAII. And indeed he did. Let us shift our scene back two years. It is the office of Professor Furtwangler, Harvard's Dean of Student Birthplaces. A hot August day. A fly buzzes somnolently at the window-pane, and Furtwangler leafs idly through a stack of Official Student Birthplace Forms. When --- suddenly --- the finely-honed instincts that gained him the high office of Dean of Student Birthplaces stir him into action. "Obama!" he cries. "Hawaii! This cannot be. First of all, the feller's black, and all black people come from Africa. And secondly, Hawaii's not a real place."

He lifts the phone for his secretary. "Miss Ponsonby? I'll need a return ticket to Africa, a set of bush gear, and my largest mosquito net. There's something I have to know ..."

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 1454 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 11:50 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 450
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 1446 of 1485 (754365)
03-26-2015 5:34 AM


Back atcha
Faith, here's a question for you - would you be happy for the burden of (non) proof which you apply to Obama's birth, to be applied to something in your own life.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that someone mischievously got onto your computer whilst your back was turned, and accessed a site advising people how to convert to Catholicism. You and your friend have a good natured laugh and joke about it, and move on. Some time later, an enterprising investigator finds out you accessed the site, releases the information publicly, and suddenly you stand accused by many of being Catholic.

Your denials are strenuous - you produce attendance records at every one of your protestant church's services - your friend publicly admits the prank - your own church and congregation (the people who would know best) endorse your lack of the remotest Catholic credential.

And yet nothing convinces the people who are convinced you're secretly in the Pope's pocket. They repeat the claims endlessly on radio shows and TV interviews. The expression "there's no smoke without fire" is spoken a thousand times as a mantra. Conspiracy theorists and those who are easily led continually brand you a Catholic and not worthy of the status of Protestant.

And despite the fact that they have no conclusive evidence - despite the fact that all they have is a single question and conjecture - despite the fact that absolutely no amount of evidence you can conclusively adduce can convince them otherwise - you are utterly powerless to stop their fantasy.

On the basis of that level of burden of (non)proof, you and other birthers would have Obama removed from office. If that were to be the burden of proof applied to you, in the circumstances described above, you would be drummed out of your church, in all genuine innocence of the alleged transgression.

This is what you have to accept as being capable of applying to you, if it's what you want to throw at others.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 1448 by Omnivorous, posted 03-26-2015 9:29 AM vimesey has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 25870
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 1447 of 1485 (754372)
03-26-2015 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1423 by Faith
03-25-2015 11:30 PM


Re: try actually thinking you all
Faith writes:

If there is no challenge to his qualifications for the Presidency the truth in this case is just a trivial misunderstanding. All that ever had to be said is Gee no I wasn't born in Kenya if there was no Constitutional problem raised by it. And it should be easy enough to prove there is no Constitutional problem if that's true, so that should be the focus rather than going to the trouble of producing documents. This whole thing is fishy.

If the modern US Conservatives were not such total idiots then yes, it would have been enough to just point out the obvious. Unfortunately today's US conservatives are so ignorant of the law, reality, the Bible, science and honesty that they would not accept the simple fact that where Obama was born really was irrelevant.

Sorry Faith but the fact that today's conservative Fascists are just plain dumb really is a problem.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1423 by Faith, posted 03-25-2015 11:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3399
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 1448 of 1485 (754374)
03-26-2015 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1446 by vimesey
03-26-2015 5:34 AM


Re: Back atcha
vimesey writes:

This is what you have to accept as being capable of applying to you, if it's what you want to throw at others.

That's all very well, but God wouldn't do that to her.

She wasn't born in Kenya.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1446 by vimesey, posted 03-26-2015 5:34 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1449 by vimesey, posted 03-26-2015 9:37 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

    
vimesey
Member
Posts: 450
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 1449 of 1485 (754375)
03-26-2015 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1448 by Omnivorous
03-26-2015 9:29 AM


Re: Back atcha
She wasn't born in Kenya.

For all we know....


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by Omnivorous, posted 03-26-2015 9:29 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1450 by jar, posted 03-26-2015 9:52 AM vimesey has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 25870
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1450 of 1485 (754377)
03-26-2015 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1449 by vimesey
03-26-2015 9:37 AM


Re: Back atcha
Birth certificates can lie.

Not too many decades ago I had to get a copy of my birth certificate and other family records. I found out that the records show my dad being born in Missouri at one place and Mississippi in another. The image of his birth certificate shows Maryland abbreviated as Md.

Oh the joys of scanned and translated records.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1449 by vimesey, posted 03-26-2015 9:37 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1451 by vimesey, posted 03-26-2015 10:04 AM jar has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 450
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1451 of 1485 (754378)
03-26-2015 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1450 by jar
03-26-2015 9:52 AM


Re: Back atcha
They can be incorrect on occasion, I'm sure. It's a tad of a stretch, though, to think that the Hawaiian register office would incorrectly record Hawaii, when they meant (without jurisdiction) to put "Kenya". Or that they fraudulently recorded it around the date of his birth, several decades before he got invested as the big cheese.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1450 by jar, posted 03-26-2015 9:52 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1452 by jar, posted 03-26-2015 10:23 AM vimesey has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 25870
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1452 of 1485 (754382)
03-26-2015 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1451 by vimesey
03-26-2015 10:04 AM


Re: Back atcha
Well Kenya and Kona are nearly identical.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1451 by vimesey, posted 03-26-2015 10:04 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1453 by vimesey, posted 03-26-2015 10:53 AM jar has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 450
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1453 of 1485 (754386)
03-26-2015 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1452 by jar
03-26-2015 10:23 AM


Re: Back atcha
And they are both famous for their coffee.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1452 by jar, posted 03-26-2015 10:23 AM jar has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 19020
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1454 of 1485 (754396)
03-26-2015 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1445 by Dr Adequate
03-26-2015 2:41 AM


Re: How It Happened
Uh huh. And there's no problem explaining any of it. We have a "mistake" made in publishing an awfully precise sounding bio, none of which is true; we have a "mistranslation" of a word used by Obama's grandmother who is misunderstood to be saying he was born in that village when she was really only being poetic and metaphorically calling him a "son of" the village; and we also have a "slip of the tongue" by Obama himself who said he was born in Kenya but of course didn't really mean to say that. I haven't looked that one up but remember something of the sort occurring. And we have a birth certificate with some very strange typographical anomalies. Also haven't looked this one up but I think I spent some time on it a few years ago. And even I could figure out how to fake a birth announcement on a copy of such a page in a newspaper, given a variety of available copying methods.

But OK, nothing here to look at, just move on folks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1445 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-26-2015 2:41 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1457 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-26-2015 12:10 PM Faith has responded

    
ramoss
Member
Posts: 2868
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 1455 of 1485 (754398)
03-26-2015 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1364 by Faith
03-25-2015 5:33 AM


Re: Ted Cruz has tweeted!
Well, you know what the issue is. We do care about accurate information.

And I do not see any evidence that you have thought about it, period, rather than in 'years'.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1364 by Faith, posted 03-25-2015 5:33 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1456 by Faith, posted 03-26-2015 11:56 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
RewPrev1
...
949596
97
9899Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2015