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Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
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You know what they say about the words assume and assumptions. Your posts here discredit yourself. You know absolutely nothing worth sharing about either carbon dating or dendrochronology. Nothing wrong with that. Except that you insist on posting about them anyway. Just a few hints to consider: Geiger counters are absolutely not used for doing C-14 or indeed any other kind of radiometric dating. So every time you mention the instrument, you are essentially screaming "I know diddly squat". The best way for you to discredit something is for you to endorse it. ABE: After further review, I find that we explained to you once before how radiometric dating is done, (See here Message 129)and you are still babbling about geiger counters 10 months later. What is the point in discussing stuff with you? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Capt Stormfield Member Posts: 429 From: Vancouver Island Joined:
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Glad you enjoyed it. The whole logging thing may be a tad off topic, but I did hope that the sight of so many logs riding around on all the nice old Pacifics and Hayes (the video was shot in 2012, all of of the trucks are 30 - 40 yrs old) might prompt OS to perhaps look at some actual trees and note that his claims about the size of tree rings do not correlate with reality.
Honestly, this thread has become a real giggle. I keep having a vision of OS standing forlornly in the pissing rain beside the road, waving a geiger counter at the passing trucks and screeching incoherencies that contradict the reality stamped on the end of every log. Sometimes you have to wonder if people aren't spending at bit too much time indoors.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Sometimes you have to wonder if people aren't spending at bit too much time indoors. Thanks for the reminder. I'm going out on the porch with my tablet. .Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... Tree rings are not all produced one per year; and they aren't very distinct in small trees. ... Which is all neither here nor there. Some tree species do not produce distinct tree rings because their ecology doesn't change sufficiently to affect tree growth. Curiously, many tree species are very good at producing rings, and these are the species used for tree ring chronologies. Small (young) trees are not used in chronologies. So the impact of your assertions on the science of tree ring chronologies is zero.
It is obvious radiocarbon dating is not based on it. Of course, it is stunningly obvious that radiocarbon dating is not based on tree ring chronologies, as it is based on the radioactive decay of 14C, and it is based on the fact that living organisms take up 14C directly from the atmosphere (plants) or from what they eat (plants). It is also rather obvious that the amount of 14C in the atmosphere is replenished by the formation of new 14C from 14N by cosmic rays (I can give you references if you want to learn about this). It is also obvious that the amount of 14C in the atmosphere varies from year to year depending on the amount of cosmic ray bombardment. AND it is obvious that all radioactive materials decay along an exponential curve, and that the parameters of the decay are dependent on the half-life of the radioactive material, because this is observed fact. As you can see, none of that involves tree rings. With or without tree rings we would have valid 14C dates on organic artifacts that got their initial carbon from the atmosphere, with the proportion of 14C in the total carbon for that year of consumption. What the tree rings do, is allow us to correct the age calculations for the variations in atmospheric 14C at the year of consumption by using the correlation of the amount of 14C in the tree rings to the tree ring age:
THE question for you to answer is how this correlation could have so little scatter in the data if either 14C measurements or tree ring measurements were faulty. ie IF your assertions regarding tree rings is true THEN how do you explain the correlation? Please note that the curve includes data from several dendrochronologies which all just happen to aligned in the same relationships -- when one would expect different results from different chronologies based on your assertions. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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OS Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
NUCLEAR SPECTROSCOPY. Now that makes a lot more sense, and it explains why nuclear decay is based on a thermodynamic equation. And the early use of it on a meteorite almost explains the conclusion of isochrones. Radioactivity decreases evenly as you go down the earth's crust?
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Try this link and see if it helps:
Radiometric DatingReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... Radioactivity decreases evenly as you go down the earth's crust? Radioactivity decreases along exponential gradientss as you go to older and older rocks\etc that contain radioactive materials that aren't being replenished from other sources (ie - produced by decay of other materials). But your problem is not to punch holes into the methodologies, but to explain the correlations -- why different systems arrive at similar dates. So far no correlations have been explained by you. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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OS Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
It does not explain how Lambda is measured with nuclear spectroscopy.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Nothing here has explained why you like using biggish words like "spectroscopy" without any faint clue what they mean, either.
"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
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OS Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
It is a method of determining elements.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
NUCLEAR SPECTROSCOPY. Now that makes a lot more sense, and it explains why nuclear decay is based on a thermodynamic equation. Do tell. Which thermodynamic equation would that be?
Radioactivity decreases evenly as you go down the earth's crust? No.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
It does not explain how Lambda is measured with nuclear spectroscopy. Possibly because this is the first you have mentioned anything about measuring λ of radioactive materials ... Curiously most such determinations are so old that they pre-date internet documents, but some additional refinements of older dates are available. For example:
Half-life of 230Th quote: and
Precision Measurement of Half-Lives and Specific Activities of 235U and 238U quote: If you want copies of these papers (or of any journal articles that require subscriptions) there are people here who have access and that can provide them if asked. One of the ways to find these papers is to look at the references of other papers\articles. For instance: Carbon-14 - Wikipedia
quote: Using google scholar you can find:
Half-life of radiocarbon quote: Please note that it is still standard practice to report 14C ages based on the Libby value of 5568 years, so that corrections of old dates by correlation to the calibration curves that have been developed (from tree rings, lake varves, and other sources) can be used consistently (without risking double corrections). Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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JonF Member (Idle past 188 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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I've posted this many times. From Call for an improved set of decay constants for geochronological use (I can supply the whole paper):
quote:
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
I'm a chemist, OS. I sort of know some of the basic techniques. You are the participant here who seems to be a bit out at sea.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... You are the participant here who seems to be a bit out at sea. For what it is worth, I think english is a second language for OS, with some resulting difficulty expressing concepts, but also handicapped by not knowing\understanding what questions to ask, due to gaps in education, but doesn't realize it. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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