Oh stop, Modulous. I've answered the question a number of times in this thread already.
Yes you have. I used the qualified 'today' to indicate that it's difficult to know on any given day what your exact position will be as you've wobbled on the line a few times
Message 1 Moderate Islam does not exist
Message 7 Moderate Muslims exist. Moderate Islam does not
Message 19 As above
Message 25 Peaceful Muslims exist; Islam is their religion.
Message 28 No Moderate Islam
Message 29 Where is moderate Islam?
Message 29 No moderate Muslims (or silent)
{a brief interlude of asking what Islam is}
Message 116 An acknowledgement of the existence of a proto-moderate Islam but this won't suffice until a certain (unspecified by Jon) degree of agreement exists. Presumably this is why nobody talks about moderate Christians, because of the lack of agreement over theological minutia
Message 118 Indicates you won't consider moderate Islam found unless it is 'coherent moderate Islam' {whatever that means} or a 'moderate Muslim community.' That you suppose that moderate Islam is a work in progress.
Message 123 you acknowledge moderate Islam would exist, if it was followed.
Message 126 you agree that a religion that is practiced by moderate Muslims, which might be called moderate Islam, certain does - but that is useless because it takes time to spread.
Message 138 you indicate you appreciate the need to make moderate Islam more appealing than extreme Islam, though you have adopted a tentative approach to its existence
Message 196 the thing that moderate Muslims follow is not moderate Islam
Message 297 maybe the Ahmadiyya could be moderate and presumably 'coherent' enough to qualify.
Message 328 Moderate Islam has not been presented to me
{Posts complaining about various examples of liberal sins, both the things that offend liberal values and liberals themselves sinning in the media etc}
{Sunni/Shia, the West's impact, resolutions moving forwards and Jon declaring he doesn't want to talk about this subject}
My best guess is that you are still denying the existence of moderate Islam. This is why I said "Sometimes it feels like you are denying it entirely. At other times you say it isn't prominent enough. ". The only way these go hand in hand is if you are saying it doesn't exist. It is possible to argue it exists but isn't prominent enough or that it does not exist AND therefore is not prominent enough.
Hence why I asked for clarity. Which apparently I didn't get by asking.
Just because it's been a while and you've forgotten everything we've discussed doesn't mean I'm going to repeat my entire position.
I haven't forgotten, Jon. When I ask what your opinion TODAY is, my memory of your opinions of yesterdays is not something that should be called into question.
Islam is a religion. This is just an abstract collection of ideas that we tie together as a single entity called Islam as a useful labelling tool. Early observers thought they were hearing a reformed Judaism, if my memory serves. It's actual nature is not relevant. You can't point at something and say 'that is Islam'. It's a thing that exists physically no more than Socialism or anarcho-feudalism is. Like with my religious ideas, there are some texts which are variously given importance and interpreted for modern day application depending on sect/school/personal opinion.
Whether it is an extreme religion or a moderate one entirely depends on the believer. Therefore moderate Islam isn't something that is presented. It is the ideas that exist in the minds of the moderate believers. There are texts about moderate Islam, they sell in the millions. There have been authors of books on moderate Islam in governmental positions in the near east region (Egpyt springs to mind), there are mothers who teach their kids not to fight other people, to be kind to the poor and so on..... This is moderate Islam as much as it can exist. Moderate people saying and writing and doing moderate things, while believing the significant tenets of Islam.
I was certainly never told to read a book on moderate Christianity to become one. I was just raised that way. Right now, a lot of kids are being raised in an extremist Islam. I thought it might be interesting to discuss why that happened, and how we might interrupt this cycle.
You seem to have ceased discussing moderate Islam and just devolved in Coyote-esque 'hey look at this outrageous thing' trolling. Let me know if you want to continue, to unambiguously summarize your current position regarding moderate Islam and - if you require more to be persuaded that it exists could you explain what else you need?
Check out the following posts; they will more than adequately answer your questions:
I mean, I'm pretty sure we've established that moderate Islam exists, that it would be nice if there was more of it. I thought discussing 'what next' might be interesting, but if we really are stuck with you at the position you were in message 1 - I don't think I have the endurance to get there. I'll simply conclude that you started by looking and finding nothing. You've been presented with millions of practitioners practicing it, not all in agreement about all things, and maybe too many are not liberal enough for Jon's tastes but moderate. So I guess, whatever you are thinking of may not exist. I can't say to be honest. Moderate Islam is what moderate Muslims believe. You acknowledge the latter, the former comes along by definition.
If you still feel you have nothing, then I don't know what you are looking for and I wish you the best of luck.
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