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Author Topic:   You Will Always Have the Poor
Phat
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Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 77 (756232)
04-16-2015 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
04-16-2015 7:05 PM


Po Fo Sho
It appears to me that its simple logic. There will always be poor people and we can feed them anytime we dare. Jesus is simply telling Judas...who hoarded the valuables...to quit whining about spent money.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 04-16-2015 7:05 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 04-16-2015 7:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 58 of 77 (756354)
04-18-2015 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Jon
04-18-2015 8:35 AM


Re: You Will Always Have the Poor
NoNukes writes:
As a group, Christian philanthropy is well known. There is no doubt that Jesus actually requires that of us. However, individual counter examples abound and it is foolish to pretend that Christians on the whole observe this teaching any better than they observe the lessons to turn the other cheek or to not cast the first stone.
I once read an article that stated...in essence...that if one took all of the money in the world and divided it evenly amongst the global populace, in a time it would return to its former ratios...the rich again being rich and the poor getting screwed. What I think that Jesus may have been hintingt at is the idea that human nature is what it is and because of this the poor will always be exploited. Hence poor.
GDR writes:
Jesus was absolutely right to say that the poor will always be with us. Our God ordained job as humans is to improve the lot of those that we are able to help as best we can. It is about having hearts that love others as ourselves.
Yes. This is the priority and goal as Christians (or even as humans in general.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Jon writes:
If one follows the changes from the earliest gospel to the latest, a clear pattern develops of removing responsibilities from the believers, lessening their workloads, and often bumping up their rewards.
Im not so sure I buy the whole redactor argument---I believe that Christians need Grace to ever be as good as they are. Works are required, but human nature in general and by-and-large is of a selfish and/or survivalist motivation. Believers (and everyone else) needs to have responsibility and yet I think that Jesus was/is aware of the fact that we will always fall short.
If I decide to buy a new iPhone 6, does that mean that I am shirking my responsibility to the poor at that moment? Some would argue that certainly I am, but reality suggests that human nature is never focused exclusively on others---nor could it ever be---without Grace.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

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 Message 49 by Jon, posted 04-18-2015 8:35 AM Jon has not replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 71 of 77 (756444)
04-20-2015 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Jon
04-19-2015 4:29 PM


Re: You Will Always Have the Poor
Argumentative today?
Treat your audience with respect...because your audience you will always have with you...unless you like talking to yourself...
Anyway...my take on all of this is not the "jar" position you seem to be pushing. I dont believe that the bible was a progressive marketing campaign to reach a certain audience for a certain reason.
I will admit, however, that a case can be made for such a position. Perhaps a question for you, the originator of this thread is which audience are you trying to speak with? Christians or secular...or both?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Jon, posted 04-19-2015 4:29 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Jon, posted 04-20-2015 9:40 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 74 of 77 (761935)
07-06-2015 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jon
04-16-2015 11:54 PM


Those pesky poor
Maybe He mean't "poor in spirit".

God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 04-16-2015 11:54 PM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 76 of 77 (775398)
01-01-2016 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Hyroglyphx
01-01-2016 5:22 AM


One reason we will always have the poor is because we will always have people whom quite naturally want to keep what they have and whom wont give half of what they have for a variety of reasons. Jesus knows what is in men's hearts.
Even Jesus couldn't perform miracles in his own hometown because of their unbelief.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-01-2016 5:22 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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