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Author | Topic: You Will Always Have the Poor | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
What did Jesus actually say? If you want to engage in the fruitless search for Jesus' actual words, have at it. I'm not going to waste my time on that kind of nonsense.Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I'm not going to waste my time on that kind of nonsense. That's fine. But I'll note that you ducked a bunch of other questions I posed. The fact is that you have little to no basis for assuming that Matthew omitted anything. Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Who's talking about accurate reporting of what happened? You are Jon. When you speak of omissions and a confusing message, those are questions involve accuracy of Matthew's message. This is particularly true because we all seem to agree that Jesus was not saying to ignore the poor.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Jon Inactive Member |
You are Jon. When you speak of omissions and a confusing message, those are questions involve accuracy of Matthew's message. No, they are questions involving the difference between Matthew's account and Mark's.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Your other questions were also nonsense.
Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Your other questions were also nonsense. Actually, those questions were completely germane and answerable. The problem is that you've declared them to be off topic so that you can continue to make assertions that you cannot back up.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
No, they are questions involving the difference between Matthew's account and Mark's. Okay. And the point is that you assume Mark is accurate and assert that Matthew has made an omission. I'm challenging your call on that point, and your answer seems to be that addressing the question is off topic.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Jon Inactive Member |
And the point is that you assume Mark is accurate and assert that Matthew has made an omission. Is your head full of rocks? How many times do I have to tell you that I don't care about 'accuracy' or what 'actually' happened?
I'm challenging your call on that point, and your answer seems to be that addressing the question is off topic. Well, I don't assume what you think I assume, so your challenge is empty.Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
How many times do I have to tell you that I don't care about 'accuracy' or what 'actually' happened? Any time you raise a question about the motive for the author leaving something out, the question of what 'actually happened' is inherent in your question. Your position inherently makes a statement about what actually happened, or what the author's sources say happened. It does not matter how many times you explicitly deny caring about what happened, when your questions and posts say something else. It's not my fault if your thread is stupid. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Jon Inactive Member |
Any time you raise a question about the motive for the author leaving something out, the question of what 'actually happened' is inherent in your question. No it isn't.
Your position inherently makes a statement about what actually happened, or what the author's sources say happened. No it doesn't.
It's not my fault if your thread is stupid. Then stop wasting my time; jeesh.Love your enemies!
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Argumentative today?
Treat your audience with respect...because your audience you will always have with you...unless you like talking to yourself... Anyway...my take on all of this is not the "jar" position you seem to be pushing. I dont believe that the bible was a progressive marketing campaign to reach a certain audience for a certain reason. I will admit, however, that a case can be made for such a position. Perhaps a question for you, the originator of this thread is which audience are you trying to speak with? Christians or secular...or both?Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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Jon Inactive Member |
Argumentative today? Well it does get tiring being asked the same stupid question over and over again by someone who doesn't understand the difference between the story (which we have for certain) and the 'actual' events behind the story (which may or may not have ever taken place).
Perhaps a question for you, the originator of this thread is which audience are you trying to speak with? Christians or secular...or both? Anyone who can read the text, be honest about what they say, and is willing to discuss the text as we have it rather than some made up fantasy related to how 'accurate' the texts might depict historical events. It also wouldn't hurt if that 'audience' had a little understanding of the textual research done over the last hundred years or so regarding the NT gospels.Love your enemies!
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Maybe he didn't consider the phrase important. Maybe he went for lunch and lost his place. Maybe he didn't care whether some goober two thousand years in the future would be confused.
Why do you think Matthew removed that important phrase to write a 'twistable' story when retaining it would have left matters no more or less debatable than Mark's account?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Maybe He mean't "poor in spirit".
God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
What is the purpose of this verse? It is hard to reconcile it with Jesus' general position of placing the poor on the top of the list of priorities. There's an obvious conflict in this scene of course. Jesus has to be anointed. But many readers might ask "why not sell the oil and give the money to the poor like Jesus suggests the rich man do in Mt 19:21?" And, indeed, the disciples foil out that very question. Is the verse in question the only answer the Gospel authors could think of or does it have some deeper meaning? And what does it say of the Jesus character? In the context of the narrative, this is Jesus' way of saying to Judas that he knows that Judas doesn't intend on salvaging the money for the poor, but rather for himself. Remember, he betrayed Jesus for mammon. However, what you've highlighted I too have cited to show that poverty will never be eradicated, regardless of all the prayers and works in the world. A pretty stunning admission considering it was the same guy that said "Nothing is impossible for you... if you have faith." So which is it? Is nothing impossible, like the eradication of poverty or will the poor always be with us? "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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