Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

I call such folk fantasists, people totally out of touch with reason or reality.No, I can't see how that would change anyone's attitude. I cannot imagine condoning criminality just because some folk think the Bible gives them special rights.

Faith, really now. To criminalize someone is to punish them for active abuse of another human being. If you and your fellow biblicans insist on abusing the rights of US citizens then I will not shed a tear as you march into prison by the thousands.I think you overestimate the strength of this self-imposed christian persecution wish. You all can cry a good one in your rantings but when it comes to the nut cutting I'll bet most of your zealous bigots will fold in just like the old southern whites.

Not for your beliefs, Love, but for your actions. Abuse of others rights.

Yes, Dear Heart, but I'm trying to point out that you are creating an artificial definition in order to make it OK for you to punish people who are acting on their Bible-based convictions according to themselves. If you redefine it according to YOUR beliefs you think you can make it OK to punish people for acting on a religious conviction based only on the Bible as WE see it, and it's how WE see it that we're acting on, not on YOUR definition of "abuse of others' rights" which is just an excuse really.But also, in the case of "hate speech" which is also on the horizon as a major excuse to punish Bible believers, nobody is being abused, it IS/WILL BE religious belief and/or speech that's being criminalized in that case. Calling preaching the Bible "hate speech" is of course a way to make it into an "abuse of others' rights"and I'm sure that will be what we're officially punished for.I'm just wondering if you'll ever see through the subterfuge and have second thoughts.Maybe not. Well, we try.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I'm sure you're counting on us folding, but I'm guessing you'll be surprised, and then you MIGHT have second thoughts. But maybe not.We'll sing hymns in prison, no crying.

Now that is just funny Faith.In the US your right to hold hateful bigoted beliefs and to say hateful bigoted things is fully protected. No one is trying to limit much less suppress your beliefs or speech.

Nave of you, jar. Why do you suppose there is now even the phrase "hate speech" if not to criminalize it. They make the distinction about acts of violence whether they were motivated by "hate" or not. Clearly the idea is to invent a special criminal status.

Faith, Stop it!You have no right to abuse other people no matter how you interpret your bible!Your view of christian "right" be damned! This country is not ruled by your bible. This country is ruled by secular law. You have no right to abuse other people!Go to jail. Go directly to jail. And stay there until you can get it through you damn thick christian skull that you have no right to abuse people!

Really ? There's a long list of well known people who believe that Christian people's rights are always more important than other people's rights ?Indulge us - find us a few quotations from these great thinkers.

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So should I assume that if huge numbers of us "self-styled 'Bible believers'" are criminalized for our views of what the Bible says you won't have second thoughts, but take the position that we deserve it?

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You should take it that lying about being persecuted is no way to get my support.

There is no law criminalising hate speechThe hate crime laws only provide for greater penalties for crimes motivated by hate.Freedom of religion protects belief absolutely. It does not convey immunity to the law for any act deemed to be religiously motivated.There is a strong tradition of freedom of speech that protects even hate speech.The only laws being complained about are those that compel businesses to serve homosexuals as they serve everyone else, and those only exist in some States of the U.S. These laws cannot be said to directly target Christians.The principle that such laws can override sincere religious beliefs is widely accepted - and Faith herself accepts it. Freedom of religion, therefore, is not an issue.The Bible directly says that the secular law should be followed, and if there is a Biblical case for overriding that prescription in the case of these laws it has not been adequately explained. To directly go against the Bible requires more than questionable inferences.Likewise Faith, when asked, provided no legal justification for permitting "Christians" to disobey the law or for the law to be set aside as unconstitutional. Instead, she merely said that the law should be changed to permit discrimination against homosexuals.Compare the reality against the claims made by Faith, and those like her and draw your own conclusions.

Christians are abusing nobody, that's what I'm trying to get into YOUR thick skull. The "abuse" is all trumped up. Go get your wedding cake somewhere else, nobody is stopping you, we'll find you a source, nobody is abusing you, sit down and have a coffee and doughnut, then go get your wedding cake somewhere else. Big fat lie that we're abusing anybody.Some are paying fines and more may eventually be sitting in jail for abusing nobody.But some DO call the Bible "hate speech" for those who keep saying there is no erosion of our freedom of religion or speech. Not full-blown yet but this much is already unprecedented.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Utter nonsense Faith. Hate speech is a description of...hateful speech.It says nothing about whether or not the speech is criminal and as a matter of fact, in the US it cannot be criminal since speech is protected.In addition, no one in the US has been treated as a criminal, fined or sent to jail because of what they believe or said unless what they said was intended to incite violence or to put others lives in immediate danger.Your right to be a bigot or fool or unpleasant or obnoxious or silly or dishonest is fully protected in the US.

In the 50's and 60's a black would walk into a diner, sit down, and would be refused service because he was black. All he wanted was what everyone else would receive in that store but interpretations of the bible allowed the christian bigot to refuse him. He could always go down the street where he could get served at a diner that wasn't owned by a christian bigot.This is abuse. It was labeled abuse and everyone but the bigots knew it was abuse.Today, the christian bigots are doing the same thing to gays, again justified using interpretations of the same bible. Again, to the bigot it is not abuse of other people but freedom of religion as THEY wish to interpret their book.This reality is staring everyone right in the face. It is not "trumped up". Only the bigots cannot see it.You think your religion is being held in contempt by the Europeans, yesterday the Irish, today the Americans? You're right. Your interpretations of your book and your actions of abuse against other human beings because of it are vile and evil and are no longer to be tolerated in free society.Go to jail.

Sure, but what if the seats at the back of the bus have extra padding? That would be nice wouldn't it? Plus buses have a door at the back now, so it's not like you actually have to walk past the empty seats at the front.Silly negroes! They don't realize how easy they could still be having it.