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Author | Topic: Calvinism and Arminianism remix | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Were this true, you may in fact be predestined not to believe! And if a believer holds to this belief then that means he believes this god thing of his purposely made non-believers so he could torture them in hell for all eternity. And made a whole hell of a lot of them, like the majority of all humans, so he could throw them in the lake of fire and revel in their torturous screams for all eternity. Such a nice guy, this god thing.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And if a believer holds to this belief then that means he believes this god thing of his purposely made non-believers so he could torture them in hell for all eternity. And made a whole hell of a lot of them, like the majority of all humans, so he could throw them in the lake of fire and revel in their torturous screams for all eternity. What alternatives can be envisioned? 1) Leave everyone alone. 2) Save everybody...showing absolutely no partiality--even though God would have a right to such a decision regardless how we humans judged Him.(Not that we speak as one voice to begin with.... ) perhaps instead of a hell, unbelievers...after given a choice and rejecting it....could simply cease to exist. Do you have any better ideas, assuming God is omnipotent?God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3990 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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Phat writes: perhaps instead of a hell, unbelievers...after given a choice and rejecting it....could simply cease to exist. Do you have any better ideas, assuming God is omnipotent? Yes, God could support stronger labor laws, especially concerning vacations: we take scandalously too few vacations in this country. Sometimes you just need to get away and simply cease to exist. Otherwise, God could just butt out. "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
perhaps instead of a hell, unbelievers...after given a choice and rejecting it....could simply cease to exist. Do you have any better ideas, assuming God is omnipotent? I am quite partial to the idea that when your kind of god, or any kind of god for that matter, confronts me and is rejected it would simply cease to exist. For millennia now man has been consigning the ancient gods to oblivion in the eternal void using nothing more than a thought. That's why all the remaining gods tremble in fear and scurry off to hide in some dark corner of human ignorance when an atheist shows up. A few dozen more banished gods, especially the megalomaniacal blood mongers like the ones so many christians venerate, would be no loss. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : reword
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What alternatives can be envisioned? Dogone it. Didn't Lennon and Ono cover this topic pretty well already? "Imagine". Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Isn't that a tad circular?
Without the idea, nothing would exist.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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May the circle be unbroken...
God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That's "Will the circle be unbroken?"
May the circle be unbroken...
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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What alternatives can be envisioned? 1) Leave everyone alone. That's it, Phat! It's that one.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
While I like the idea of eliminating harsh judgement, I would miss the idea of Gods blessing, favor, and/or reward.
God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And you like the idea of your friend forcing himself on everybody?
While I like the idea of eliminating harsh judgement, I would miss the idea of Gods blessing, favor, and/or reward.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringp writes: If my "friend" were in fact the Creator of all seen and unseen, it would be you that would have to force yourself to ignore Him. And you like the idea of your friend forcing himself on everybody? Seems to me the problem isn't me. Granted, you want to be left alone. Granted its easier to deal with reality as we perceive it rather than being forced to read the pamphlet left at our door. If people try and force a way of belief, that is wrong. Calvinists believed in Monegismwhich comes from a compound Greek word that means to work alone, . They believed it was all on "my friend". While monergism is closely associated with John Calvin, synergism is associated with Jacob Arminius, and his views have greatly shaped the modern evangelical landscape. The latter see it as a two way street. If you shut yourself up in the towers of your mind, how can my friend ever talk to you...except I suppose through me. God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Maybe he should talk louder.
If you shut yourself up in the towers of your mind, how can my friend ever talk to you...except I suppose through me.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
AZPaul3 writes: Wouldn't that be the essence of free will? I am quite partial to the idea that when your kind of god, or any kind of god for that matter, confronts me and is rejected it would simply cease to exist. We are free to believe in magic, leprechauns and imaginary friends---or to choose to believe that our concept of reality is all that matters to us. We are of course responsible for our choices.God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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AZPaul3 writes: I am quite partial to the idea that when your kind of god, or any kind of god for that matter, confronts me and is rejected it would simply cease to exist. Wouldn't that be the essence of free will? I was destined by intellect and acculturation to be atheist. I am confident free will, defined as my ability to choose, had little if anything to do with the matter. I doubt your intellect and acculturation left you any choice in the matter either. I was about to post more on free will and Calvinist pre-election v Arminian choice but in re-reading the OP I was reminded that the given supposition is that god exists. I shouldn't be contributing here. Hundreds of thousands of electrons deleted as off-topic. But it is a good thread and with the different viewpoints expressed it is both instructive and entertaining. A gentle and intellectual way to proselytize, Phat. You done good. Thank you. Edited by AZPaul3, : A tome that isn't anymore.
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