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Author Topic:   Is Christianity Evil?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 14 of 120 (761898)
07-06-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tangle
07-06-2015 12:18 PM


Re: Division
Tangle writes:
If benign religious ideas are adopted by cynical people and exploited for their own benefit empires and institutions are create power and wealth which last for generations.
So Christianity isn't evil; cynical Christians are evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 12:18 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 1:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 16 of 120 (761907)
07-06-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
07-06-2015 1:09 PM


Re: Division
Tangle writes:
examples of 'evil' Christian ideas are many
It's debatable whether those are "Christian ideas" or just ideas that some Christians have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 1:09 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2015 1:28 PM ringo has replied
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 4:53 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 120 (761912)
07-06-2015 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
07-06-2015 1:28 PM


Re: Division
jar writes:
Actually I have a real question whether more than two of Tangle's examples could even be remotely considered as evil.
It does seem like a pretty low threshold of evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2015 1:28 PM jar has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 33 of 120 (761997)
07-07-2015 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Tangle
07-07-2015 4:53 AM


Re: Division
Tangle writes:
They've all been invented by mainstream organisations that call themselves Christians.
No they haven't. Most of your objections are common to many religions. " Women are inferior creatures" is probably as common outside religion as in. Christians may have inherited evil from human nature or borrowed it from somewhere but it's a stretch to suggest that they "invented" anything.
As Jon said in the OP Christianity began as a "pacific" religion, certainly more pacific than its Mosaic roots. The evil in it is largely superimposed, not inherent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 4:53 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 07-07-2015 3:15 PM ringo has replied
 Message 43 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 5:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 54 of 120 (762079)
07-08-2015 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
07-07-2015 3:15 PM


Re: Division
Phat writes:
Groupthink? Crowd Mentality?
People who join organizations may be more susceptible to groupthink and/or crowd mentality than "freethinkers".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 07-07-2015 3:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 55 of 120 (762080)
07-08-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Tangle
07-07-2015 5:13 PM


Re: Division
Tangle writes:
Yes they have. Now what?
I explained: "Most of your objections are common to many religions," etc. Your task would be to show that my explanation is wrong.
Tangle writes:
Exactly, they're all wrong, we just happened to be discussing Christianity.
I continued explaining: "Women are inferior creatures" is probably as common outside religion as in. Christians may have inherited evil from human nature or borrowed it from somewhere but it's a stretch to suggest that they "invented" anything. Your task would be to back up your claim that religion is the origin of any evil.
Tangle writes:
Christianity grew into schismed power hungry institutions from Constantine and before that it was a divisive mess with many variants of your club Christian kicking around saying weird and wonderful things about what they thought it all meant.
So you admit that the evil came from "power hungry institutions" - e.g. the Roman Empire - not the scatter-brained and disorganized early Christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 5:13 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 60 of 120 (769336)
09-19-2015 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
09-18-2015 9:22 PM


Phat writes:
This whole idea of a humanistic kum ba ya feelgood mentality that not only tolerates but accepts all beliefs as equally valid is not what Jesus preached.
You're misusing Matthew 10:37. Jesus was telling his followers to separate themselves from loved ones who DON'T do the kumbaya thing. He was underlining kumbaya, not rejecting it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 09-18-2015 9:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 73 of 120 (769466)
09-21-2015 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
09-21-2015 12:07 PM


Re: Untangling the mystery
Phat writes:
IF God exists, God exists whether or not anyone believed it to be so.
Phat writes:
There is only one God.
Why would there be only one?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-21-2015 12:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 09-21-2015 9:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 82 of 120 (769563)
09-22-2015 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
09-21-2015 9:03 PM


Re: Untangling the mystery
Phat writes:
Thats a good question. What are your thoughts on it?
My thoughts are that there's no particular reason for there to be only one god. Why would there be only one?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 09-21-2015 9:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-23-2015 2:10 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 87 of 120 (769617)
09-23-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
09-23-2015 2:10 AM


Re: Untangling the mystery
Phat writes:
Why do most countries have only one president? Why are most courses taught by one teacher?
Those are offices, not entities. One office, one office-holder, one pay-check.
Why is there more than one law? Why is there more than one school subject? Why is there more than one elephant?
Phat writes:
Its easier to imagine One source for creation rather than a sub committee!
It's easier for you to "imagine" because you're not imagining at all. You're just accepting the line of rhetoric that you've been spoon-fed.
Phat writes:
All powerful.....thus no need for help
All knowing.....no need to share this trait.
Why can't a sub-committee be collectively all-powerful and collectively all-knowing?
Phat writes:
In fact, the only argument for shared power comes from our plucky cherub, Satan himself....
In the Book of Job, Satan DID share the power.
Phat writes:
Even Jesus never thought of equality with His Father.
Now you're meddling with the doctrine of the Trinity?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-23-2015 2:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 97 of 120 (769895)
09-26-2015 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
09-26-2015 9:21 AM


Re: Empathy in general vs "still small voice"
Phat writes:
Everyone can rescue a puppy, but it takes a real heart to rescue some old drunk with no redeeming qualities.
AHEM! Aren't you the one who's always preaching against that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 09-26-2015 9:21 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 09-26-2015 8:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 99 of 120 (769980)
09-27-2015 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
09-26-2015 8:49 PM


Re: Empathy in general vs "still small voice"
Phat writes:
My point is that doing so will not enhance your status with the Creator.
Jesus said it will; in fact, it's the ONLY way to enhance your status with the creator.
Phat writes:
I guess that my whole irritation at your admonition was because I felt forced to do.
But it's God/Jesus doing the forcing. You want to have communion with God without doing actually doing what He tells you to do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 09-26-2015 8:49 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 09-27-2015 3:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 101 of 120 (769991)
09-27-2015 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
09-27-2015 3:22 PM


Re: Empathy in general vs "still small voice"
Phat writes:
Jesus was talking to Jews when He preached works.
No He wasn't. He was talking to "all nations".
Phat writes:
Paul (whom you guys seemingly ignore) showed us that our righteousness was as filthy rags and that there was and is no way to earn salvation.
If you're relying on second-hand commentary rather than the Son of God, don't forget that James said, "Faith without works is dead."
Phat writes:
Salvation is a gift. It is not given only to those who hear and do.
The only way you can tell who has received the gift is by their deeds. By their fruit ye shall know them, not by their saying, "Lord! Lord!"
Phat writes:
In fact, having confidence in your own salvation based on how much works you do is a surefire recipe for failure.
It isn't about having confidence in your salvation. NOBODY should have confidence in their salvation. You should be constantly asking yourself, "Did I do enough?" You should be expecting God to ask you on the Judgement Day, "What about that homeless man you stepped over on the night of April 17th?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 09-27-2015 3:22 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 09-28-2015 10:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 120 (770091)
09-29-2015 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
09-28-2015 10:03 PM


Re: Good Works. A Chore or an Impartation?
Phat writes:
You are dismissing the influence of the Holy Spirit.
Correct. You can't invoke the Holy Spirit to trump Jesus.
Phat writes:
Pauls "information" was directly from God when he was knocked off his High Horse on the Damascus Road. There are several examples of the influence of the Holy Spirit.
Paul may have been in perfect communion with God at the gates of Damascus but we're talking about what he said, not what he "knew". He can possibly be forgiven for making Get Out of Hell Free sound easy for the Romans, Corinthians, et al. After all, you don't sell Kentucky Fried Chicken franchises by telling people how hard it is to make a profit.
But you, having Jesus' own words (supposedly) to go by, have no excuse for watering down the message.
Phat writes:
You seem to think that the message is simply one of trying to do ones best with no help from God.
I have never said that you won't get any help from God. I have said that you can't COUNT on any help from God. You are REQUIRED to do your best, whether He helps you or not. Otherwise, you're a goat.
Phat writes:
My point is that a transformed life is never achieved through works.
Your point is wrong. The "transformation" IS the works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 09-28-2015 10:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 111 of 120 (770421)
10-05-2015 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
10-05-2015 8:24 AM


Re: Marketing A Message
Phat writes:
Christs death had more impact than His life.
And you think that's a good thing?
Why did Jesus bother teaching at all if it was only His death that mattered? Was He just trying to provoke the Romans and/or the Jews into killing Him? If so, why wasn't He a lot more provocative? Wouldn't, "Down with Caesar!" instead of, "The meek shall inherit the earth," have gotten Him killed a lot quicker?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 10-05-2015 8:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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