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Author | Topic: Is Christianity Evil? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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Jon writes: I raised the point that Christianity began as a very pacific religion that only became 'primitive and destructive' when it entwined itself with the secular components of governing an empire (i.e., the religion became used as a tool to pursue secular goals inconsistent with traditional Christian belief and teachings). Much of what poses as Christianity today---in Western Culture,specifically the United States...seems to be one giant infomercial on how to prosper,be blessed, and gain a thirty sixty hundredfold return on your investment. I see it as so much deeper...but only in person---with other Christians. God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I know there can be disagreement on the finer points of what constitutes Christianity and what it means for something to be evil. But I really don't want this thread to devolve into a bunch of emotional drivel about what people feel in their souls or other such nonsense. Point taken. I suppose the first question--then---is whether or not this so-called evil is logical. Is it the fault of the doctrines of Christianity specifically or is it the fault of those who attempt to misuse a religion for personal gain?God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: It's clear that religions cause divisions between individuals, groups and countries and the more fervent the belief, the more damage they cause. Both history and present day activities show that plainly. Perhaps a question to be raised is why the very idea of belief in general causes an automatic division. Not everything imaginable can be evidence based. And that's assuming that there is no evidence for the premises which Christianity affirms.
saab93f writes: For me the basic premise of Christianity portrays exactly that - that in order to be saved from eternal damnation, one has to believe in something there is nothing tangible about. Jon writes: I vote benign. This thread is specifically for exploring whether Christianity was a benign religion usurped by secular evil or whether it was always evil and only pacified recently through contact with Enlightenment secularism. Is that a baseless assertion that is emotional rather than logical? Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky Edited by Phat, : Benign BelieversGod created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: Can you show that any form of lifestyle and philosophy is anything other than made up? it's rather obvious that my position is that no branch of Christianity is 'true'. Rather, that all branches of the brand - including your own - have made up all this nonsense and will continue to do so it seems.God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
saab93f writes: If there was a supernatural entity that did not stop the missionary nor the Padre then I cannot conceive a greater evil. Which brings up more of a philosophical question of how such a Deity teaches its "children".
jar writes: If children---or humans in general---are simply prevented from doing "evil" by GOD---presupposing that GOD could directly intervene...or whether we are expected to culturally and sociologically learn our own lessons over time...thats the point. It is only later, when we look back on the sermons written on how to civilize the savage, what the place of the Blackman in society is, on the terrible wrong we did in destroying cultures and beliefs that we realize how wrong we were. Perhaps Tangles point is the idea that humans would behave better were religions simply out of the way.
They did what they thought THEIR god required. Which brings up the question of accepting personal responsibility for our actions versus blaming GOD, Satan, or Republicans for our choices and actions. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
1.61803 writes: It has been my experience that conversion and/or acceptance (or often rejection) of a religion or religious philosophy is done on a personal level---through relationship with others. It is one thing to reject and/or accept ideas logically. We do that every day. As with all things there seems to be a distribution of good and evil when it comes to the human experience and religion is no different imo. I personally think that religion serves as a way to unify people as well as cause wars and tear us apart. The reason that I attend church is not because I need a special place to worship GOD as I understand GOD. Nor is it to gather as a club...I am a loner by nature. I attend because of my personal relationships with people. God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Groupthink? Crowd Mentality? As Jon said in the OP Christianity began as a "pacific" religion, certainly more pacific than its Mosaic roots. The evil in it is largely superimposed, not inherent.God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I suppose we need to agree on "what their own devices" are....in regards to historic as well as contemporary Christianity.
God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: But yet we are charged to do....obviously the Deity would logically have to care about our discipline regarding our charge. I have never suggested anyone should believe or not believe in GOD. If GOD does exist, and if GOD really is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, then I cannot imagine such an entity really giving a damn about whether or not some human believes in it. It makes me think though...Christianity is only as evil as Christians are...and we can't blame GOD. One minor point of contention. You claim GOD to be "complete" being good and evil. I see GOD as "good". A "complete" GOD would not have as much of a problem with fallible humans doing what they felt to be best...even if those humans were behaving in an evil manor. A "good" GOD, by contrast would be a bit harder to ignore...one would think.God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: Sometimes division is what is needed. This whole idea of a humanistic kum ba ya feelgood mentality that not only tolerates but accepts all beliefs as equally valid is not what Jesus preached. It's clear that religions cause divisions between individuals, groups and countries and the more fervant the belief, the more damage they cause.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
And that is true for all people whether believers or not. Truth is reality, whether one believes in it or not. IF God exists, God exists whether or not anyone believed it to be so.
Religious belief is therefore redundant - an unnecessary and often dangerous addition to something that is normal human behaviour. Religious belief can be dangerous...I will agree. It can also be helpful. There is only one God. No redundancy...unless you insist on elevating yourself up to such a humanistic standard. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Thats a good question. What are your thoughts on it?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
more to the point...is evil a trait of humanity in general or does religion tend to fuel evil actions? I can see where Tangle is defending human capability to behave all of the ways that an enlightened person would ( or should) behave and act. Christian behavior most certainly can be evil, but it must not necessarily be so.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
My thoughts are that there's no particular reason for there to be only one god. Why would there be only one? Why do most countries have only one president? Why are most courses taught by one teacher? To start with, defining God is the first step. Lets say we define God as the Creator of all seen and unseen, for starters. Its easier to imagine One source for creation rather than a sub committee! All powerful.....thus no need for help All knowing.....no need to share this trait. In fact, the only argument for shared power comes from our plucky cherub, Satan himself....who asks basically the same question: Why does this guy get all the glory, all the credit, and all the attention? The simple answer? He needs no help. (apart from the idea that we are all gods in the sense of being made in His image.) And even then we are taught that it is unwise to attempt to share the throne of our mind and heart as co equals. Even Jesus never thought of equality with His Father. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: I can argue with you if - as seems to be the case - that you are saying that god is intervening with this still little voice stuff in real time. I believe this. I believe that God intervenes. I cant describe how it happens--There is no concrete evidence that it has happened, or is happening, or will happen....and thus I have no defense in support of my belief. My point is that I still believe. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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