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Author Topic:   Is Christianity Evil?
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(1)
Message 8 of 120 (761825)
07-06-2015 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
07-06-2015 2:29 AM


What constitutes evil? For me the basic premise of Christianity portrays exactly that - that in order to be saved from eternal damnation, one has to believe in something there is nothing tangible about. One can be an extremely good human being but since reason denies bowing to a supernatural entity, it is all in vain.
Another thing that for me is evil is the mental somersaults (some) believers have to make in order to justify the horrendous, atrocious and capricious deity of the Old Testament and somehow claim that this omnipotent God is pure love. Then again, the same God found it best to fulfill his plan by having his son killed (and then resurrected).
Christians have acted (and do) benignly but for what - out of fear or out or true goodness?

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 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 2:29 AM Tangle has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 34 of 120 (761999)
07-07-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
07-07-2015 10:49 AM


Re: My position on the question of whether or not Christianity is evil.
The Missionary teacher that helped bring the poor savages to the Missionary School, who clothed the kids, cut their hair, gave them good Christian Names, taught them to read and maybe even write, taught them about GOD did so to save the kids souls.
The Padre that accompanied the Conquistadores and that burned the Codices did it for what they saw as the best of reasons, saving souls. This refrain has been repeated time after time and over issue after issue. It is only later, when we look back on the sermons written on how to civilize the savage, what the place of the Blackman in society is, on the terrible wrong we did in destroying cultures and beliefs that we realize how wrong we were.
That was surely thought-provoking. I am personally of an opinion that people are good and tend to want to do good things unless proven otherwise. That naturally means that majority of Christians are good and do good.
All the more the examples you wrote are a portrayal of pure evil IMO. If there was a supernatural entity that did not stop the missionary nor the Padre then I cannot conceive a greater evil. What a deity would see it best to drag children from their families and cultures - an omnipotent??

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 Message 32 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 10:49 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 12:34 PM saab93f has replied
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 07-07-2015 2:51 PM saab93f has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 36 of 120 (762006)
07-07-2015 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
07-07-2015 12:34 PM


Re: My position on the question of whether or not Christianity is evil.
Often a parent can see a child doing wrong but still not intervene or even be able to intervene. If humans are to have freewill then humans must also be responsible for their actions.
Ain't that just a cop-out like No True Scotsman?
People in your examples were doing honestly what they thought their God required. They had zero thought about the folks they subjugated, none whatsoever. I honestly cannot help but think that it was the religion that made the otherwise decent people do horrible things.

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 Message 35 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 12:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 1:11 PM saab93f has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 38 of 120 (762017)
07-07-2015 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
07-07-2015 1:11 PM


Re: My position on the question of whether or not Christianity is evil.
They did have thoughts about the folk the oppressed, killed, subjugated and they did what they did for the benefit of the people they oppressed, killed and subjugated.
They did what they thought THEIR god required. They never shed a thought about others as equal human beings.
You talk about free will - where was the free will of those subjugated? When the choice was between death or conversion, all talk about freedom or free will is absurd.

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 Message 37 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 1:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 4:26 PM saab93f has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 47 of 120 (762057)
07-08-2015 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
07-07-2015 4:26 PM


Re: My position on the question of whether or not Christianity is evil.
But I agree that was the wrong decision. That does not make God or Christianity evil. That makes what they did evil and the God they created evil.
What is the difference? The deity you claimed they created as opposed to an objective, genuine supernatural entity. For me this sounds even more like a cop-out, that God is always good but his followers bad, God gave people freewill but only to Christians and that there really is no true Scotsmen.
Yes, you said that the decision those wicked missionaries or Padres made were wrong but so what - the end justifies the means? There is no giving Indians their faith or culture back, no way of recreating the codices and no way to unbreak hearts.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't your justification that those evil people did what they did because they wanted to save the souls of the savages. They thought that was necessary, noone else did. Evil in my book.

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 Message 42 by jar, posted 07-07-2015 4:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 07-08-2015 8:54 AM saab93f has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 51 of 120 (762067)
07-08-2015 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
07-08-2015 8:54 AM


Re: My position on the question of whether or not Christianity is evil.
Sorry, I thought that your choice of words "the God they created" implying that the real thing was somehow better or more moral than that.
I personally cannot believe in anything more than what we have here and now. That does not mean that I couldn't comprehend the need for "something bigger". For me that is just unnecessary - being good for goodness' sake and enjoying each day is more than enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 07-08-2015 8:54 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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