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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 271 of 1444 (765457)
07-29-2015 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
07-28-2015 11:50 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Faith writes:
Now you are acting as if you believe YOU have foreknowledge, and know you are going to Hell?
No, I'm just taking Phat's theology, and yours, to its logical conclusion. You and Phat believe I'm going to Hell and you're okay with that. I don't believe there is a Hell (at least not beyond the hell on earth that we can create) but if your theology was correct, I'd rather be against your God than for him.
Faith writes:
How do you even know what YOU will choose or believe next year for that matter?
Right back at you: How do you know you won't come to your senses?
Faith writes:
But I'm also interested in the fact that you don't know how a person deserves Hell.
My understanding of Hell is similar to yours. Remember, I came from where you are. I know the drill. It's just that you put Hell in the same category as France whereas I put it in the same category as Never Never Land.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 11:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 3:43 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 272 of 1444 (765462)
07-29-2015 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by ringo
07-29-2015 3:24 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
I'm not at all okay with you going to Hell. I often feel like grabbing you or others here by the shirt front and shaking you hoping to get you to accept the gospel. I know it wouldn't work, that's all. But I'm not at all okay with any of you going to Hell.
I really do know I'm not going to give up on the gospel myself, if only because I came to it so late in life after experiencing over forty years of life without it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by ringo, posted 07-29-2015 3:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 07-29-2015 3:49 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 273 of 1444 (765464)
07-29-2015 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by PaulK
07-29-2015 10:23 AM


Re: time and eternity
The meaning of Isaiah 7 is given in the New Testament.
We should get back to the topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 10:23 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 5:19 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 274 of 1444 (765465)
07-29-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Faith
07-29-2015 3:43 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Faith writes:
I often feel like grabbing you or others here by the shirt front and shaking you hoping to get you to accept the gospel.
I recommend that you try making sense instead.
Faith writes:
I really do know I'm not going to give up on the gospel myself, if only because I came to it so late in life after experiencing over forty years of life without it.
Same here. I'm still discarding the last vestiges of your so-called "gospel" after being shackled to it for forty years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 3:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 10:57 PM ringo has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 275 of 1444 (765467)
07-29-2015 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
07-29-2015 3:46 PM


Re: time and eternity
quote:
The meaning of Isaiah 7 is given in the New Testament.
Wrong. At best the New Testament assigns a secondary meaning not present in the text of Isaiah 7. And if you understood the Bible you'd know that. But thank you for proving my point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 3:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 5:32 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 276 of 1444 (765469)
07-29-2015 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by PaulK
07-29-2015 5:19 PM


TRe: time and eternity
The meaning of Isaiah 7 is given in the New Testament.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 5:19 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 5:42 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 277 of 1444 (765470)
07-29-2015 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
07-29-2015 5:32 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
Clearly you have no idea what Isaiah 7 says.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 5:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 5:45 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 278 of 1444 (765472)
07-29-2015 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by PaulK
07-29-2015 5:42 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
Study Guide for Isaiah 7 by David Guzik
i. We know this passage speaks of Jesus because the Holy Spirit says so through Matthew: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." (Matthew 1:23)
ii. We know this passage speaks of Jesus because the prophecy is addressed not only to Ahaz, but also to David's entire house (O house of David!).
iii. We know this passage speaks of Jesus because it says the virgin shall conceive, and that conception would be a sign to David's entire house. Those who deny the virgin birth of Jesus like to point out that the Hebrew word translated virgin (almah) can also be translated as "young woman." The idea is that Isaiah was simply saying that a "young woman" would give birth, not a virgin. While the near fulfillment may have reference to a young woman giving birth, the far or ultimate fulfillment clearly points to a woman miraculously conceiving and giving birth. This is especially clear because the Old Testament never uses the word in a context other than virgin and because the Septuagint translates it categorically virgin (parthenos).
iv. We know this passage speaks of Jesus because it says He will be known as Immanuel, meaning "God with Us." This was true of Jesus in fact, not only as a title. Immanuel speaks both of the deity of Jesus (God with us) and His identification and nearness to man (God with us).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 5:42 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 6:11 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 279 of 1444 (765473)
07-29-2015 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
07-29-2015 5:45 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
I see no mention of Israel, Aram or the Assyrians, all central to the prophecy of Isaiah 7
Nor do I see any explanation of what sense it makes to send a sign centuries after the events it is supposed to portend.
Ignoring virtually all of a prophecy is not a good way to understand it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 5:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 10:59 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 284 by ICANT, posted 07-30-2015 3:06 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 280 of 1444 (765489)
07-29-2015 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by ringo
07-29-2015 3:49 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
The problem is that you say so many bizarre things that have nothing to do with the gospel as if they do, so there's really no evidence that you ever really were a believer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 07-29-2015 3:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by ringo, posted 07-30-2015 11:38 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 281 of 1444 (765490)
07-29-2015 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by PaulK
07-29-2015 6:11 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
If you read the link you will find all that dealt with. But the point of Isaiah 7 to a Christian is what the New Testament says about it, which I've quoted above.
This is my last post to you. You are aggressively off topic. End of subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 6:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2015 2:41 AM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 282 of 1444 (765491)
07-30-2015 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
07-28-2015 11:50 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Hi Faith,
It sure looks like everyone has hijacked this thread and totally forgot about it being about foreknowledge.
Faith writes:
Now you are acting as if you believe YOU have foreknowledge, and know you are going to Hell?
Everyone can have foreknowledge of where they will spend eternity.
John writes:
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Everyone that has ever been born is condemned to the lake of fire because of the sin of one man.
Romans writes:
5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Because one man chose to disobey God and eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil sin entered the universe and every human being was sold into slavery by that first man. Thus every one is under the penalty of sin and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
Unless they exercise their free will and chose to accept the free full pardon that has been offered to mankind by God for their sins.
Now as to the foreknowledge of God. I will use myself as an example.
I was born into this world in 1939 and as soon as I knew good and evil as the man in the garden did I became responsible for my sin debt.
2 months before my 10th birthday I accepted God's pardon for my debt that I could not pay. Because of that acceptance I have eternal life.
Before Genesis 1:1 God viewed the end:
Acts writes:
15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
This tells me before God created the universe He viewed the end and everything in between. He saw every time I disobeyed Him as well as every time I obeyed Him. And yet He was willing to come down to the earth and suffer that I might be reunited with Him to spend eternity with Him just because He loved me.
He knew this about every person who has ever been born and was still willing to die in our place.
Now the problem every one here has is they are locked in a box called time which is nothing but and invention of mankind to measure distance between events.
God is not locked in time as time does not exist. There is only eternity. God still sees the beginning and the end and every thing in between at the same moment just as He did prior to Genesis 1:1.
If I die before my wife does I will get to heaven 1 nano second before she does regardless of how many years she spends on earth after my death. Time does not exist in eternity, it is one great big now.
So God knowing every decision I made during my existence on earth had nothing to do with what decision I made. He just saw the movie and knew what was going to happen next. Because for the measure of the distance between the beginning and the end as far as God is concerned we can not come up with a number small enough to measure that distance.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 11:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 283 of 1444 (765492)
07-30-2015 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
07-29-2015 10:59 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
quote:
If you read the link you will find all that dealt with.
Yes, it points out that there is a whole lot more to Isaiah 7. As I have been saying. I should know you now to never trust your assessment of anything you link to.
quote:
But the point of Isaiah 7 to a Christian is what the New Testament says about it, which I've quoted above.
Which relies on taking a part of the prophecy out of context.
quote:
This is my last post to you. You are aggressively off topic. End of subject.
Which is your way of politely admitting that you were wrong. Charming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 10:59 PM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 284 of 1444 (765493)
07-30-2015 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by PaulK
07-29-2015 6:11 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
Hi Paulk,
Paulk writes:
I see no mention of Israel, Aram or the Assyrians, all central to the prophecy of Isaiah 7
What specific prophecy of Isaiah 7 are you referring too?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 6:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2015 3:17 AM ICANT has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 285 of 1444 (765494)
07-30-2015 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by ICANT
07-30-2015 3:06 AM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
i'd say that there is only one prophecy in Isaiah 7. If you choose to take the Assyrian conquest of Judah as a separate prophecy then obviously the Assyrians are still a central part of that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by ICANT, posted 07-30-2015 3:06 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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