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Author | Topic: Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
My mind set is close to Daniel Dennett as far as what religious people / theist should become after they grow up. Personally, I like a lot of the social functions and appeasement of our need for fellowship, hivishness and tribalism offered by religious institutions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5tGpMcFF7U So I do not want to kill all religions but just encourage them to be more moral, tolerant and give equality to women and gays. Having said the above, People and recent trends to read scriptures literally have cause many to forget that religions were invented as theatre and myth and were never meant to be read or taken literally. They were designed to seek God, not to find one. Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it." Please listen as to what is said about literal reading. "Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning." As you can see from the following, religions and temples have always been about entertainment and fellowship. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7BHvN6rZZA If Christianity and Islam could return to the old way of seeking God instead of idol worshiping false Gods, perhaps jihadists and other fundamental believers might chill and get along the way they have at some points in our past history. Religions are fairy tales for adults. If this is a truth, we should encourage Christianity and Islam as well as all other religions to grow up and return to their better past of seeking God instead of idol worshiping Yahweh and Allah. Both of them are mythical and manmade Gods. RegardsDL
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
GIA writes: This belief needs to be supported. You are stating Dennetts (and others) philosophy as if it is truth. Please support the assertion.
Religions are fairy tales for adults. If this is a truth, we should encourage Christianity and Islam as well as all other religions to grow up and return to their better past of seeking God instead of idol worshiping Yahweh and Allah. Both of them are mythical and manmade Gods.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
The Origen quote does that and if you think talking animals are not mythical and imaginary then you have a problem.
What you want come when dealing with objections. Not in the main body of a O.P. Post the O.P. or not but it stays as is. RegardsDL
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
I mean't no disrespect, but will stand my ground on challenging you for two reasons.
First, we are in a Faith & Belief topic. A member can start a topic about pink unicorns, for all I care...as long as they state that it is a belief and not a fact. the same rules apply to atheists and gnostics. The second reason i hesitate to promote your topic is because all of your topics are essentially the same thing. I suppose I'm asking you what you expect your readers to do? What sort of argument do you intend to make--in a Faith/belief context?
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Thread copied here from the Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
I suppose you pass the test... Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Greatest I am writes: Religions are fairy tales for adults. Not exactly the wording I would choose, but I accept your idea.
Should we encourage them to grow up? No.We should encourage them to live life the way they want to. (As long as they're not hurting others...) So I do not want to kill all religions but just encourage them to be more moral, tolerant and give equality to women and gays. Sounds good to me.
If Christianity and Islam could return to the old way of seeking God instead of idol worshiping false Gods, perhaps jihadists and other fundamental believers might chill and get along the way they have at some points in our past history. Perhaps.There are many things that *could* help people "chill" and get along the way they have at some points in our past history. I don't think it should be a single pronged-approach. I don't have an issue with this possible-solution, as long as the believers don't have an issue with it either. It's their belief... it's up to them to keep it or adopt it or change it or whatever. If they insist on hurting others, I think the primary focus should be on stopping them from... hurting others. Not stopping-something-that-we-think-is-behind-their-mindset-in-the-hopes-that-it-could-stop-them from hurting others. Cut to the chase. There's no reason to guess that their belief is the driving mindset unless you have something fundamentally against the belief itself. I don't have a problem with anyone's belief.I only have a problem with people's actions... if they hurt others. Therefore, I don't care about stopping beliefs... I only care about stopping hurtful actions. Prevent/control the actions to keep people safe and equal, and the beliefs will change themselves or fade away.Prevent/control the beliefs to keep people safe and equal... and things will not change or fade. In fact, violence will have a good shot of getting much stronger. Fairness is a basic, instinctual concept.No matter our beliefs, we understand that keeping people safe and equal is fair... those who oppose the idea are fighting the uphill battle. Attack the beliefs... and that instinctual concept of fairness transfers from obvious physical equality into belief-intellectual equality... and the uphill battle shifts onto anyone attacking the beliefs.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Phat
Thanks for this. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Stile
Thanks for the reply. Well put. "I don't think it should be a single pronged-approach." I agree. Education is one, debate and discussion is another which includes education. ----------------- "I don't have an issue with this possible-solution, as long as the believers don't have an issue with it either. It's their belief... it's up to them to keep it or adopt it or change it or whatever." Literal believers will always have a problem with changing their view. They do not even listen to their own church hierarchies. For instance, basically all the mainstream religions are recognizing evolution yet many believers ignore their hierarchies on this issue. ------------------ "If they insist on hurting others, I think the primary focus should be on stopping them from... hurting others." I think the ongoing institutionalized homophobia and misogyny in Christianity and Islam are definitely hurting others. Hence my puny efforts to educate them. How to get their ear is the hard part. Even as we speak, the Pope is moving the Catholic Church to the left but you would not know it from what the adherents are saying and doing. RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
No. Fiction is valuable and important for everybody.
Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
ringo
I agree, but the bit of fiction under discussion, the bible and Qur'an, have been used forever to discriminate against women and gays without a just cause. Strange that you, a woman, would not be quick to condemn those books or prefer to have them read as pure myth. RegardsDL Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given. Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
Any fiction can be used for good or bad purposes. You can't eliminate bad things by telling people to just say no to fiction.
I agree, but the bit of fiction under discussion, the bible and Qur'an, have been used forever to discriminate against women and gays without a just cause.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
ringo
Correct, but when they are reading it in a way other than fiction, and giving it credence that push them to harm others without a just cause, then correcting their poor reading habits and beliefs would be quite good for society as a whole. RegardsDL
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
You can't tell people to "correct" their reading habits. The people with the worst reading habits are the ones who are least likely to pay any attention to you.
Correct, but when they are reading it in a way other than fiction, and giving it credence that push them to harm others without a just cause, then correcting their poor reading habits and beliefs would be quite good for society as a whole.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 294 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
ringo
My social duty is to try to correct. If the listener is blind and dumb there is nothing I can do but try. For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. I recognize that most theist are not even in their religions due to belief and they do not care to change anything. I work for the odd person who will listen and convert. It does not happen that often, in fact I have more success with lurkers than the actual person I chat with but on good days, like today, I have a woman who seems to be coming along after her and I had a bit of a rocky start. Looks like there will be at least 1 less Mormon out there after today. Happy days. RegardsDL Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
Doing nothing may be bad but doing the wrong thing is worse.
For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.
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