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Author Topic:   There is no evolution or creationism - this is the new Matrix/DNA world view
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 136 of 149 (766442)
08-18-2015 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by ICANT
08-18-2015 12:21 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
My fingernails are longer now at 12:00 o'clock than they were at 8:00 AM when I ate breakfast.

But you cannot tell the difference, just like you cannot see evolution on a "daily basis".

The horse record that RAZD has trotted out so many times has been proven to be incorrect.

No it hasn't.

Can you point me to the Whales you are referring too?

Well, we can start with this:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 12:21 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 1:45 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 137 of 149 (766443)
08-18-2015 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Taq
08-17-2015 4:19 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:

Sperm and egg cells do not have all the information needed to build a human body. When they combine to create a new genome, they create a genome that has never existed before. If you want to call it a wolf, Chihuahua, human, or whatever, that is up to you. What is important is that this organism with this genome has never existed before.

Taking the human sperm and egg of which each has 23 different chromosomes making a total of 46 chromosomes when they are combined you have a human, and you can never take those 46 chromosomes and produce anything other than a human. Some can be deformed in different ways but they are still human beings.

Taq writes:

When you compare individuals that lived millions of years apart there may very well be differences between them.

I liked the way you parsed your words 'may very well be' differences between them and there may not be differences. But I am inclined to believe there would be differences as their diet would be different and their living conditions would be different.

Taq writes:

When does someone go from young to old? When does a young man go from being short to being tall? Skinny to fat, and maybe back to skinny? These are spectrums, just as evolutionary change is.

The day you are born you begin to die.
The Dna information in the cells will control your growth. It will not make you go from fat to skinny that is controlled by you and the input of food into your system.

But a human getting old and creped and dying is only change to that human body and will never cause it to be or produce anything but a human body with joining of sperm of a human male and the egg of a human female.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 08-17-2015 4:19 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Taq, posted 08-19-2015 4:50 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 138 of 149 (766444)
08-18-2015 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by NoNukes
08-12-2015 2:09 AM


Re: To Dr Adequate
In any event, a poker game has very little to do with math because everybody competent knows the relative probabilities.

* contemplates this sentence in silent wonderment *


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2015 2:09 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 139 of 149 (766448)
08-18-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taq
08-17-2015 4:41 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Taq,

Taq writes:

The accumulation of mutations over time causes species to be different through time.

Yes,

I took a wild hog and bred him with a polen china sow.
I took one of their offspring and bred him to a duroc sow.
I took one of their offspring and bred him to a polen china sow from a different line tham the first one.
With each breeding the offspring got bigger and bigger.
After 10 such selective breeding's the offspring was weighing between 900 and 1000 lbs. But everyone of them was hogs.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 08-17-2015 4:41 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Taq, posted 08-19-2015 4:58 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 140 of 149 (766451)
08-18-2015 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by NoNukes
08-17-2015 8:57 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi NoNukes,

NoNukes writes:

I think you meant to say that you were spraying succeeding generations of worms. If so my question to you is what type of analysis of the worms did you do that allows you to tell us that the immune worms do not continue new information in their DNA that their ancestors did not have. How would you recognize new information and distinguish that from a beneficial mutation that did not add new information?

They contained no more information than they had already because after several generation being treated with different poison's and them becoming immune to them and after doing this with 6 or 7 different chemicals you could go back to the first chemical you used and it would kill them just as easy as it did in the beginning. This means they had reverted back to where they were in the beginning.

So they had the ability to change their immune systems from the beginning.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by NoNukes, posted 08-17-2015 8:57 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by NoNukes, posted 08-18-2015 2:27 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 141 of 149 (766454)
08-18-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by ringo
08-18-2015 12:12 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Ringo,

Ringo writes:

You're saying that I have absolutely no evidence that I drove from Atlantic to Pacific.

No, you don't.

You have positive evidence that you were in each city with the same car.

You could have took the auto train and got off and spent a few days in each town.

OR you could have took a cargo plane and flew to each city and took your pictures.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by ringo, posted 08-18-2015 12:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by ringo, posted 08-18-2015 1:28 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12534
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 142 of 149 (766456)
08-18-2015 1:20 PM


On-Topic Warning
The current discussion seems well off the original topic. If someone would like to propose a new thread over at Proposed New Topics then I'll give it a look as quickly as I can. In the meantime, please leave this thread be unless you'd like to resume discussion of the matrix/DNA world view.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13885
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 143 of 149 (766459)
08-18-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ICANT
08-18-2015 1:13 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
ICANT writes:

You have positive evidence that you were in each city with the same car.

You could have took the auto train and got off and spent a few days in each town.

OR you could have took a cargo plane and flew to each city and took your pictures.


Certainly, you could have all kinds of alternative hypotheses - but you would need evidence to back them up. What the available evidence actually shows is that I drove. The evidence may not point to an "absolutely correct" conclusion but you are wrong to suggest that the evidence doesn't point to that conclusion.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 1:13 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 144 of 149 (766466)
08-18-2015 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2015 12:40 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Hi Cat,

Cat writes:

No it hasn't.

quote:
Popular presentations that suggest a simple, gradual, and progressive straight-line of evolution from Hyracotherium to Equus are not supported by the actual fossil data. Most evolutionary scientists now acknowledge that this is the case. For instance, Soper (1997 p.890), in Biological Science, writes:

As to the whales the artist was pretty good.

God Bless,

"The history of the horse does not show a gradual transition regularly spaced in time and locality, and neither is the fossil record totally complete".


http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/.../55-horse-evolution.html

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2015 12:40 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10069
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 145 of 149 (766470)
08-18-2015 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by ICANT
08-18-2015 1:05 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Sorry admin.

Edited by NoNukes, : self censored as being off topic


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 1:05 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 146 of 149 (766618)
08-19-2015 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ICANT
08-18-2015 12:44 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Taking the human sperm and egg of which each has 23 different chromosomes making a total of 46 chromosomes when they are combined you have a human, and you can never take those 46 chromosomes and produce anything other than a human.

Based on what criteria?

I liked the way you parsed your words 'may very well be' differences between them and there may not be differences. But I am inclined to believe there would be differences as their diet would be different and their living conditions would be different.

Are chimps and humans different because our diets and living conditions are different? If we started living in the water like whales do, would we start giving birth to whales?

Or are the differences between species due to DNA base differences in their genomes?

The day you are born you begin to die.
The Dna information in the cells will control your growth. It will not make you go from fat to skinny that is controlled by you and the input of food into your system.

But a human getting old and creped and dying is only change to that human body and will never cause it to be or produce anything but a human body with joining of sperm of a human male and the egg of a human female.

At what precise nanometer does someone go from being short to being tall, and how do you justify that precise height?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 12:44 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 147 of 149 (766623)
08-19-2015 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by ICANT
08-18-2015 12:57 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Yes,

I took a wild hog and bred him with a polen china sow.
I took one of their offspring and bred him to a duroc sow.
I took one of their offspring and bred him to a polen china sow from a different line tham the first one.
With each breeding the offspring got bigger and bigger.
After 10 such selective breeding's the offspring was weighing between 900 and 1000 lbs. But everyone of them was hogs.

I am talking about a population of organisms over much longer time periods. Your example is not homologous or analogous.

Also, the theory of evolution also says that they will still be pigs, but perhaps pigs that are different from their ancestors, or perhaps a new species of pig.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 12:57 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
TheMatrix/DNA
Member (Idle past 710 days)
Posts: 46
From: Newark-NJ-USA
Joined: 06-05-2015


Message 148 of 149 (766666)
08-20-2015 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by ICANT
07-19-2015 4:49 PM


Re: To ICANT
Hi, ICANT, gladly to see you here. Sorry my absence here, I was in the jungle without Internet.

quote:
Sorry to burst your balloon but I have read every word you have posted in this thread

Congratulations. It means that you are really interested in this topic and are mind-opened to new theories.

quote:
Am I understanding you to be putting forth the idea that all the complexity that is found in human DNA has evolved from chaos as well as the DNA in all other creatures and things?

Well... the method of comparative anatomy between living and non-living systems lead me to design a link between this galaxy ( the most evolved non-living system that came from cosmological evolution) and the primordial cell system ( the first living system). This link is a perfect closed system, a kind of perpetual motor, it is LUCA - our Last Universal Common Ancestor. It has the property of self-recycling, it is isolated in the space, it does not need anything from outside for living. One of my biggest surprise in my life was when I was analyzing this system and saw there all seven symbols used by the Bible to describe the Eden Paradise. Yes, if you know to read the maps, you see clearly, the serpent (the spherical systemic circuit is like a serpent swelling, eating, its own tail), Adam and Eve, the tree, the apple, etc., and really, for that system it has created the paradise for himself. Imagine this surprise for someone that always thought that the Bible is merely a fair-tale and does not know if God exists or not.

But... this link produced the first cell system, which is not a closed system, it is not perfect, not self-recycling and it is the daughter of the necessity, can't hold the initial energy. So, the first question was: why such big mutation, and for worst? I found an answer in thermodynamic theory, entropy. And calculating which would be the final result of entropy attacking this system, the results suggests that the system was fragmented into its smallest bit-informations, and these bits were spreaded in the space. Meeting at Earth surface these bits had the tendency to join with their antique neighbors, and every time that grew a packet of those bits, there was a new molecular species. As son of necessity and non-complete, weak system, plus the adverse environment, it was the chaos to them. Again I remembered the Bible: " Then there was the Fall, and the Adam's offspring were son of the needs..."

We need take in account that this process from astronomical/mechanical to microscopic/biological is like any genetic transmission process with a special difference: while biological systems self-reproduces keeping the genes inside an envelope, the chromosoma, the passage from astronomical was with the genes spreaded in time and space. Biological system produces copies of them, while the astronomical system produces a big diversity of derived copies.

So, yes, the Matrix/DNA Theory is suggesting that we are the sons of chaos, but, it was not necessary the Matrix telling that. I am in the jungle seeing chaos everywhere and here we came from. It is not that "all the complexity that is found in human DNA has evolved from chaos". Because all the complexity that is found in the chimpanzees ( our closest relatives, relating to DNA), were existing in the sky 10 billion years ago, in shape of the building block of astronomical systems. The difference is that at astronomical level, these life's properties are electromagnetic/mechanical. So, the chimpanzees' complexity were not evolved here at Earth, and before the chaos, there was the ordered state, as closed perfect system. And after chimpanzees, from humans emerged consciousness, which was not a property of LUCA. Matrix/DNA is suggesting that consciousness is a new shape of that universal system and it comes from a more evolved system than LUCA - the system that was existing before the Universe.

You ask..." from chaos as well as the DNA in all other creatures and things?" Well... The Big Bang Theory pictured the beginnings of the Universe as a chaotic state. Also the Bible says same thing. And the Matrix/DNA's calculations arrived to the first moments of the Universe and saw chaos also. The explanation is that, again, the reproductive process of that unknown system that generates universes is made by the same method that galaxies creates life: spreading the bits-information in tine and space, instead biological reproduction where the genes are kept closed inside a membrane and the embryo develops in a ordered state.

Do you know something? I think it is wonderful this " divine" method, because it respects the free-will of the genes. The genes suffering in the chaos but they are free to build what they want, and generating the big diversity. What free will have the genes of a human embryo under the ordered state? It is like you said here: they have no alternative if not building a human being. And we, human beings, are just now ( together with any other intelligent life form in the Universe) the genes building this new embryo inside our heads, called consciousness.

We know that the genes of our parents lift up to the brain inside the neurons. So, our individual identity is the result of the sum of all genes, they becomes one. It suggests that all human beings, as genes, will be one, when the embryo of consciousness will have birth. And after that, all conscious be of the Universe will be one. So, if a unique human being, as gene, does not accomplish his/her mission, we will be a handicapped individual. From here, from Matrix/DNA world view, emerges the universal best moral code for " love". We need to help every human being because he/she has an information, a message, that nobody else has, and we need it, we need that all human beings stands in good conditions for accomplishing their mission here.

Cheers...

Edited by TheMatrix/DNA, : No reason given.


There was no origins of life and universe, astronomical systems are half-alive, light waves contains the code for life and DNA is not a code: Matrix/DNA Theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by ICANT, posted 07-19-2015 4:49 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
TheMatrix/DNA
Member (Idle past 710 days)
Posts: 46
From: Newark-NJ-USA
Joined: 06-05-2015


Message 149 of 149 (766673)
08-20-2015 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by ICANT
07-19-2015 4:49 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
quote:
That a single cell life form somehow began to exist from non existence and then began the process of evolution from a very simple RNA to a simple DNA and finally into the complex DNA that is in every human cell. It takes a CD or better of storage space (depending on who you are reading behind) to hold all the DNA information in each human cell.

Where did all that added information come from? Chaos can not produce it. Neither can mutations as most of them are determentinal to the cell.


ICANT,

Have you seen the last images of the universe coming from NASA? There are ones that are astonishing. It seems clouds of all colors designing shapes, etc. Now, please, imagine that we are microscopic intelligent particles living inside an atom inside a ribosome inside a cell inside a human body. Those microbes also have telescopes and they points out to outside the cell. What they must see? Clouds of gases, but you - as human being - knows that instead cloud of gases they are seeing organs, like the stomach, etc.

So, we are these microbes beginning to see the Universe. I am not suggesting that the Universe is a living being with organs, etc. My method has revealed a never imagined before complexity hidden inside astronomical systems. It is suggesting that the universe is like the fossil of our antique ancestor, that is working like a placenta, inside which and from who we ( our soft meat body) came from. The method has suggested a new model of astronomical system that is equal a cell system. If so, the living cell did not come from non-existence, it is coming from a unique evolutionary lineage that is 13,7 billions years, at least.

But where all that information came from? Of course, the Universe is not magical, it can not create new information from nothing. All information were here at the Big Bang. Like in genetics, genes are not expressed all at the same time, there are those that are expressed later.

Matrix/DNA is suggesting that inside this Universe is occurring a genetic reproductive process of the natural conscious system that was existing before and was the responsible by the Big Bang. Why it must be conscious? Again, the Universe could not creating consciousness from nothing. There are various mathematical theorems (Godel, Tarsky) showing that matter by itself can not jump to self-consciousness alone. The human embryonary sac reveals consciousness at the 7 month, the Universe reveals it at the 13,7 billion years old, what is the problem? It is merely a relativistic issue. I have hundreds of pages calculating models of the beginnings, most based on the fabulous theory of atomic glue by the Nobel Physics Hideky Yukawa. A quantum vortex popping out from the Big Bang has all seven natural forces and mixing them we get numbers like 1,94809576884637, or 1,98465860798756545... these is the initial universal bit of information. It works like genes.

Now... you know that an embryo "think" that the embryonic sac is the whole universe. Ask to him where all those information, those genes, come from, he does not know. But you know: from the parents!

Who are the parents?! I don't know, I am an embryo of consciousness that think that this universe is the whole world... I even did not opened my eyes for seeing my own body, I don't know what substance I am made off, as consciousness.

I don't worry with these people saying to you that the cell came from non-existence, that evolution creates new information never existed before, etc. They have not showed data or enough evidences asserting their theories. They are like those authors that wrote the Bible, about the Eden Paradise. I learned that the " paradise" is registered into our DNA, and the right mental effort can stimulate neurons to flash images of it, obscure and non-comprehensible images. It is up to the individual how he/she will interpret and connect the images. If a primitive individual with tendencies to magical thinking and anthropomorphising everything, the images of our astronomical ancestor will be enrolled in a fair-tale with voices coming from God. If he is naturalist philosopher, so, an extreme rational materialist, suffering high fevers due malaria and facing the chaotic hell of the jungle, he will see the same flashes and interpret it as our past celestial shape when we did a big mistake, a fatal sin, becoming closed system which expressed the extreme selfish character... and we must declare war on our selfish gene as said Dawkins. But... maybe the philosopher is far away off the beam also, he is searching answers for his suffering.

We are in a race, each theory searching evidences, facts, for proving itself. The victory must be with the Truth, and if these people criticizing you have the right theory, I wish to be the looser.
Everyday I am crazy waiting new data, selecting those that are evidences or right previous prediction from my models, like the one recently when the Rosetta robot discovered organic molecules in the comet surface. Then I commemorate because it is a big victory for Matrix/DNA, since that 30 years ago I was analyzing the Matrix formula and saw that comets carries the informations related to Y chromosome spreading it as seed of life in the space. For a half-monkey in the jungle this is a big victory, man!
Cheers...

Edited by TheMatrix/DNA, : No reason given.

Edited by TheMatrix/DNA, : No reason given.


There was no origins of life and universe, astronomical systems are half-alive, light waves contains the code for life and DNA is not a code: Matrix/DNA Theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by ICANT, posted 07-19-2015 4:49 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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