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Author Topic:   For whatever - your insult, and radioisotope dating
johnfolton 
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Message 8 of 121 (76671)
01-05-2004 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by JonF
01-05-2004 2:56 PM


Re: K/Ar Dating
JonF, If Snellings wood fossil was actually 230 million years old it would not have any C-14, as C-14 has only been proven to be formed in the atmosphere(proven), though, I'm sure you all believe its being formed within the earth(not proven), because you have no other way to explain Snellings dated wood fossil, etc...
P.S. Get over it, its a moot point, the fossils have been proven to be young, and the rocks old, etc...The paleontolgist are using you, they rely on your faith, to support their delusions, etc...

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 12 of 121 (76697)
01-05-2004 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Rei
01-05-2004 4:38 PM


Re: K/Ar Dating
Rei, Dr. Libby recieved a nobel prize, he proved C-14 is formed in the upper atmosphere, now its up to you to prove its been proven its formed within the sediments, etc...Libby had proof, it wasn't an hypothesis, or a theory, but proven, the fossils are young, etc...
P.S. Until you prove to the scientific community, how this unstable isotope can be formed within the sediments, you can not truthfully say the fossils are old, or that evolution had millions of years to evolve, this is the problem facing the paleontologists, likely why they have swept this issue under the rug, etc...
The method
The radiocarbon method was developed
by a team of scientists led by the late Professor
Willard F. Libby of the University of Chicago in immediate post-WW2 years.
Libby later received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1960:
"for his method to use Carbon-14 for age determinations in archaeology, geology, geophysics, and other branches of science."
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-05-2004]

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johnfolton 
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Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 14 of 121 (76708)
01-05-2004 5:58 PM


JonF, This problem exists in the fossil coal graveyard's all over the world, and oil fossil fuels formed by the sediments of the biblical flood, etc...The fossil record has been proven to be young, it hasn't been proven otherwise, I'm sure your pretty sure, but the problem is you have to prove it, until then all your different isotope dating methods is a moot point, for they don't actually date the fossil, they are dating the sediments that buried the fossil, etc...

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johnfolton 
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Message 20 of 121 (76723)
01-05-2004 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by mark24
01-05-2004 6:36 PM


mark24, I'm not a young earther, so I have no problem if some of the sediments came from pre-flood catastrophies, even the bible indicates the earth will be hit by a star, that it will be given the key of the bottomless pit kjv rev 9:1, and when the seventh vial is released into the air, that the earth will shake as it hasn't shaken since man was upon the earth kjv rev 16:18, etc...
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-05-2004]

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johnfolton 
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Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 24 of 121 (76731)
01-05-2004 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by mark24
01-05-2004 8:16 PM


I believe the earth is possibly 4.6 billion years old, however, believe the sun is only a star 13,000 years, and the fossils found frozen testify they are young, how does that make me a young earther, if I have no problem with the rocks being older than the fossils, etc...
P.S. Just because you can't date fossil imprints, or fossils, if there is no organic remains, however, they were able to date the pleistocene fossils found abundantly frozen in the Siberia, Alaska, etc... Atlantisquest.com
Perhaps some of your K-T Tektites could of simply been formed during the biblical flood, even Walt Brown believes 35 percent of the sediments that erupted with the waters were the basalt, if it cooled suddenly, might explain some of your K-T Tektites, though likely the flood lifted up some of these sediments tranlocated them, supporting your asteroid or that they were formed by the erupting waters of the flood itself, etc...
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-05-2004]

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johnfolton 
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Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 26 of 121 (76741)
01-05-2004 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Rei
01-05-2004 8:51 PM


Rei, The PALEONTOLOGICAL TESTIMONY puts this massive world wide pleistocene extinction of life to be only 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, given C-14 dating always errors with the fossil being older, not younger, proving in part, no evidence C-14 being formed within the earth, whatever, the paleontologists call these fossils of the biblical flood, the pleistocene extinction.
The Pleistocene Extinction
Atlantisquest.com
Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individual animals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 32 of 121 (76817)
01-06-2004 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Bill Birkeland
01-06-2004 10:38 AM


Re: C14 Dating of Fossilized Wood 2
It might well be that you don't need to prove C-14 is being formed within the sediment of the earth, water percolation, possible bacterial contribution drawing on water percolation, seeing how mineralized the fossil was, makes one question any rock dating, due to water movement, affecting parent elements constants, dating assumptions believed true for your dating methods, with argon rising up from the earth, and being recaptured by your cationic and anionic exchanges, responsible for mineralization of Snellings fossil, and these natural leaching problems, it should be obvious that the rocks are not as they were when they were laid down, even snellings fossil was mineralized, perhaps this is a root problem when dating rocks where only a little error can make a rock appear much older, due to the the great half life scale, and the leaching of C-14 out of pleistocene fossils at different rates making it appear that the pleistocene extinction happened at different times, due to the low half life scale, seems related to these factors, however, fossils like the famous Mammoth found frozen alive, were not mineralized, testify that the flood happened only thousands of years ago, and not millions of years ago.
P.S. Thanks though for bursting my bubble, I really liked Snellings wood fossil, but it is refreshing that you acknowledge that you can not assume that the dating methodologies are not affected by water transporting minerals, mineralization recapture caused by cationic and anionic exchanges, etc...
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-06-2004]

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 33 of 121 (76822)
01-06-2004 1:24 PM


IrishRockhound, Whatever - the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, but the Sun is only 13,000 years? Please explain this a little further. Did the Sun just appear in the sky, poofed into being by a god with a truly bizarre sense of humour?
I'm not a young earther, so I take the bible where it starts out kjv genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth to mean that God didn't just poof and the sun was there, he created the the sun, and the earth, and all the stars, even starlight testifies that God created the universe over billions, perhaps trillions of light years, God's eternal, etc...however, its possible that our solar system was created, only 4.6 billion years ago, but that our sun poofed into a star 13,000 years ago, when God said let there be light, is when it went nucleur, and became a light, and God said it was good kjv genesis 1:4, if one day is as a thousand years to God kjv 2 peter 3:8, then the sun went nucleur only 13,000 years ago.
Missing Link | Answers in Genesis
Previously, detectors were able to pick up only electron neutrinos. But this new experiment at the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) were able to detect the missing neutrino flavours, the mu and tau neutrinos that undergo ‘neutral current’ reactions. This is consistent with other lines of evidence that fusion is the primary source of energy, e.g. standard physical models indicate that the core temperature is high enough for fusion. This means that neutrinos must have a very tiny rest mass after allexperimental data must take precedence over the theories of particle physicists that neutrinos have zero rest mass. Therefore creationists should no longer invoke the missing neutrino problem to deny that fusion is the primary source of energy for the sun.
So it cannot be used as a young-age indicatornor an old-age indicator for that matter.26
P.S. Because this can not be used as a young age indicator nor an old age indicator there is no evidence that the sun is not 13,000 years a star, etc...

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 38 of 121 (76837)
01-06-2004 3:09 PM


It appears the wood fossils of Snelling wasn't petrified, mineralized, it was preserved from waters because the sandstone was encapsulated in basalt, etc...quess were back to square one, the fossils can not be both young and old, meaning this proves the fossils are young, it was protected from mineralization, etc...
Radioactive Dating in Conflict! | Answers in Genesis
The wood was in three statesash, charred, and intact.1 Those on-site at the time speculated that there had been two distinct trees, partly standing, still organic in nature, and thus not petrified. The imprint of a leaf was also discovered within the basalt, which was also regarded as remarkable, remembering that the enclosing rock was once molten lava erupted at 1000—1200C (about 1800—2200F).
So how could these tree trunks have survived being engulfed by molten lava? At approximately four metres (13 feet) thick, the basalt flow is relatively thin,1,3 and thus cooling would have been rapid (perhaps days, but a few weeks at most4). This is verified by the observed internal structure of the basalt flow.1,5 Since the tree trunks were engulfed at the bottom of the flow, cooling may have been immediate, with any water present in the wood aiding extremely rapid encapsulation and thus preservation.
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-06-2004]

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 45 of 121 (76845)
01-06-2004 3:37 PM


Brian, The bible always says that God made, created, etc...it doesn't say poof and it was, it says he said and then he made, created, etc...
People tell me that the earth and the entire universe happened in a blinking of an eye, however, the bible says God said then however, he made, created, etc...If a thousand years are but as a watch in the night to God, and the Apostle Peter explaining to the brethren, not to be ignorant that one day to God is as a thousand years, etc... The creation week man only came onto the scene on the sixth day, meaning that God is talking about a God day, that the creation week took 7,000 years, the creationists believe they were 24 hour days, making the earth by the genologies of man, to be 6,000 years old. When you add 6,000 years to the 7,000 years you come to the beginning of the creation week when God causes the sun to be a light to be 13,000 years ago, etc...
P.S. If you calculate from Adam to Noah Flood its likely happened closer to 5,000 years ago, if you factor in that Adam was created on the 6th day, and God rested on the seventh day. If your an young earther, it really doesn't matter, God did it, and the fossils are young, even if or if not the rocks are old, etc...This is how I see it, presently, etc...
kjv Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it is past, and [as] a watch in the night.
kjv 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-06-2004]

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 49 of 121 (76850)
01-06-2004 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by mark24
01-06-2004 3:32 PM


mark24, There is a lot of mysteries, not sure how Walt explains your Tektites, though he seemed to believe a lot of sediments got launched into the upper atmosphere, explaining the sediments that buried the fossils, mud flows, sediment stratification, etc... however, he mentions basalt comprising 35 percent of the sediments coming out of the fountains of the deep, perhaps some of these basalt lava's cooled to form your Tektites, that they came out from the inner earth, iridium, shocked quartz, etc...

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 52 of 121 (76864)
01-06-2004 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Brian
01-06-2004 4:06 PM


Brian, This is how I see it, God positioned the sun and the moon to be of equal size in the sky to provide light for the creatures he created on day 5, I believe the sun became a star on Gods first creation day, however, on day 4, he set the sun in the firmament, I interprete this to mean that he set the earth at a certain distance from the sun and moon so they are the same size in the sky, this is how God made the sun and the moon to be lights unto the earth, the stars were already shining but he positioned the orbit around the sun to set the stars in the night sky, he did all this for lights, for signs and seasons,and to measure days, months, and years, etc...
P.S. I'm not a theologian, but just feel that the first 3,000 years were for the melting of the waters, the separation of the waters, and for the stablishing of plant life, but on day 4 he positioned the lights in the sky, for the creatures he created on day 5 and day 6, and when God was done he saw that it was good, etc..
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-06-2004]

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johnfolton 
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Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 57 of 121 (76898)
01-06-2004 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Brian
01-06-2004 5:16 PM


Brian, Your right it seems the geneologies theologians calculate that the earth is 6,000 years, however, since Adam was born and the flood took place 1,656 years elapsed, this would place the flood happening 4,344 years ago. But this is likely different from the creation week, meaning possibly almost 6,000 year passed before God created man,and Gods day of rest likely blended into the theologians 6,000 years, so the earth is likely between 11,000 to 12,000 years old, since the sun became a star, I don't see a problem when Adam died, it mattered not if he died in God's day of rest, likely the biblical flood, happened after God rested 1000 years, up to 1656 years after Adam was created, placing the flood happening, 4,344 years ago, just thought it was interesting, etc...
Adam 130 years when he begat Seth
Seth 105 years when he begat Enos
Enos 90 years when he begat Cainan
Cainan 70 years when he begat Mahalaleel
Mahalaleel 65 years begat Jared
Jared 162 years begat Enoch
Enoch 65 years begat Methselah
Methuselah 187 years begat Lamech
Lamech 182 years begat Noah
Noah 500 years begat Shem
Shem 100 years begat Arphaxad
Total 1,656 years
Noah was 600 years old when the flood happened.
total 1056 years + 600 years= 1656 years since Adam was created.
Arphaxad 35 years begat Salah
Salah 30 years begat Eber
Eber 34 years begat Peleg
Peleg 30 begat Reu
Reu 32 years begat Serug
Serug 30 years begat Nahor
Nahor 29 year begat Terah
Terah 70 years begat Abram
total 290 years
1656 + 290 = 1946 years to Abraham's Birth
Abraham was probably around 100 years old when he begat Isaac so we need only approximately 2000 years from Abraham to Jesus Birth to satisfy the 6,000 years from Adams birth to the present.
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-06-2004]

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 59 of 121 (76910)
01-06-2004 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by JonF
01-06-2004 7:04 PM


JonF, Snellings wood fossil is not petrified, it was found in sandstone encased in basalt, shielded from water contamination, until you prove that C-14 can be generated in the sediments, you really are being untruthful, this fossil can not be old and young, and given how unstable C-14 is, even you should realize the fossil record has been proven young, or at the least you can not date them by the basalt sediments, etc...
P.S. The paleontologist rely on your faith that the fossils can be dated by the sediments that buried them, however, you believe you can date fossils by the sediments, in spite of the evidence that the basalt that entombed Snellings fossil dated 20 + million years, this surely should confirm you can not date the fossils by dating the basalt lava's, unless of course you can prove that C-14 can be formed with in the basalts that entombed the sandstone the fossil was found, etc...

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 61 of 121 (76933)
01-06-2004 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by JonF
01-06-2004 8:37 PM


JonF, I kind of hear you, however the fossils of the pleistocene extinction show the massive extinction happened only 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, supporting the biblical flood happened, suddenly, etc... Atlantisquest.com
however, hear where your coming from, can see now why you believe what you believe, etc...
P.S. With all the coal, oil fossils also exhibit C-14, making them unsuitable for use of neutrino testing sites, is water percolation able to contaminate, or is the fossils actually young, seems a lot of unanswered questions, whatever, its interesting the massive world wide pleistocene extinction is believed to of happened only 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, the entire fossil record is an extension of the pleistocene extinction, the biblical flood explaining the fossil record in the sediments, there is no way the fossils happen without burial, and the massive petrified or mineralized fossils, fossil imprints, are evidences in support of the biblical world flood, the only way to preserve a fossil is to bury it, and we have a massive fossil record, massive burial, massive evidence in support of the flood, a fossil that is not buried will not be in the fossil record, unless it found frozen in the glaciers, etc...
[This message has been edited by whatever, 01-07-2004]

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