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Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 336 of 424 (767925)
09-03-2015 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by JonF
09-03-2015 1:45 PM


Great day for judges.
She thanked the judge and well she should--she'll be Palin-esquely wealthy soon. Good for her.
Before her election she confided that while there was gay marriage elsewhere, she "couldn't do it if it came here". She wasn't, as it turns out, caught unawares by this--she ran to get in the way.
She'll get money and cheers, but she'll look like George Wallace in the rear-view mirror. The ride won't be pretty and likely won't end well.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 339 of 424 (767932)
09-03-2015 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by kbertsche
09-03-2015 3:36 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
kbertshe writes:
I tend to agree with you on this. However, this case is somewhat more complex than it appears. There is apparently a constitutional conflict in Kentucky. The state constitution apparently defines marriages as between male and female, and the state constitution also claims to take precedence over federal law.
There is no complexity; there is only one Caesar. The SCOTUS already ruled on the states' claims.
States cannot nullify federal laws. They can challenge them, but once constitutional/jurisdictional questions are resolved, fed beats state like rock breaks scissors.
Conservatives have nullification dreams, though, that are hard to kill.
Also, this just in: The Confederacy lost the war.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 350 of 424 (767952)
09-03-2015 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Faith
09-03-2015 7:24 PM


Faith writes:
Just because she knew in advance that she couldn't go along with the law before it happened does not mean she did anything to "set this up" in advance. That's pernicious nonsense.
Well, that's herpetic hornswoggle, Faith.
She knew full well she likely wouldn't fulfill her oath of office when she took it. She was already resolved to assert that her religious beliefs trumped the law. She has declared herself (literally) a vessel of God's will: I thought he preferred the devout to self-righteous, thrice-divorced mothers of two out-of-wedlock kids.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. For a pagan.
You've previously argued she never in her wildest dreams imagined she'd have to issue licenses to gays; so has Ms. Davis and her lawyers. They lied. I guess you believed them, though you should know by now that nobody lies like an evangelical Christian in a public policy debate.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 7:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 10:18 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 353 of 424 (767964)
09-03-2015 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by Faith
09-03-2015 10:18 PM


You mean her oath to uphold the law? Sometime in 2014, the year of her election.
The comment came from a neighbor and supporter out to reinforce Davis' claim of religious sincerity in an NPR interview--as if that mattered.
Even during the campaign, she knew her oath was worthless.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 352 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 10:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 10:31 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 355 of 424 (767968)
09-03-2015 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by Faith
09-03-2015 10:31 PM


How odd. I'm getting my certainty about her frame of mind from her own statements.
When you campaign for office already resolving aloud to ignore laws you don't like, then swear to uphold all the laws without favor or bias, you were lying--even before you lie about never imagining it could happen. She feared it would happen and had made up her mind to defy the law before taking the contradictory oath.
QED
All the hand-waving in the world won't change that

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 354 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 10:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 10:55 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 357 of 424 (767970)
09-03-2015 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by Faith
09-03-2015 10:55 PM


You're right. She's just another liar for Jesus.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Faith, posted 09-03-2015 10:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 363 of 424 (767988)
09-04-2015 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
09-04-2015 1:54 AM


Faith writes:
I really don't know what point you are trying to make. My point is very simple: if ANY human law, doesn't matter what its source, contradicts God, a Christian must disobey that law. Period.
That's why jailed Christians have always packed our prisons and jails, nobly, humbly, secretly resisting unjust man-made law.
There's no lie involved.
I guess Ms. Davis had a cross in her pocket when she swore her oath and when she later told the judge she had never imagined herself in this position. Not only had she imagined it, she'd already decided what to do.
They're other folks around the world who claim their understanding of God trumps human law.
For the most part, their hands are bloody, and their consciences are clean.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 372 of 424 (768016)
09-04-2015 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by NoNukes
09-04-2015 3:09 PM


Delicious.
I understand that as an elected official, she can only be removed by impeachment in the legislature.
Still, there must be some provision for the clerk's duties when one is incapacitated or otherwise unable to perform her duties. I suspect an automatic delegation to assistant clerks is that process, and she implicitly consented when she swore her oath.
Ms. Davis, via her attorneys, refuses to "authorize" her assistants to stamp her name and suggests couples would be risking an invalid, 'unauthorized' license.
What a ferret-like martyr! I'd almost marry somebody to get a limited edition license. I savor each one they stamp.
When she's out, will she try physically to stop her assistants? It could be epic.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 370 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2015 3:09 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 374 of 424 (768018)
09-04-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by dwise1
09-04-2015 3:40 PM


Unsigned? That's unusual--most county offices run on rubber stamps.
If I was the judge, I'd let her sit till she signed. He has said both that couples would just have to take their chances with those licenses and that she could be released if the assistants issued them
That doesn't sound acceptable to me.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2015 3:40 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 376 of 424 (768201)
09-09-2015 8:52 AM


Here come da clerk
So Ms. Davis is free. According to her attorney, "We are back to square one." There seems little doubt she will interfere with licenses being issued to gays by her assistant clerks unless the state meets her demand that her name and office be removed from the license.
I think the judge took the right course: she's clearly thrilled with her martyrdom, and needed a bit more rope. BTW, it would be nice to see Shuckabee in jail, but I have to admire the chutzpah of his offer to go in her place.
I'm still puzzled by the intersection of her marital history, conversion and present course. She clearly issued marriage licenses to previously divorced people, even though that also contravenes what she sees as God's law. I wonder why.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by ringo, posted 09-09-2015 12:14 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 380 by NoNukes, posted 09-10-2015 12:58 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 379 of 424 (768224)
09-09-2015 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by ringo
09-09-2015 12:14 PM


Re: Here come da clerk
ringo writes:
On the CBC news last night somebody commented that quitting the $100,000 job might have been a more sincere protest.
Well, she probably tithes. In the grand prosperity church tradition, that return-on-investment salary went to her mother previously, now her, and, yea, even unto her son's generation, because her tithes are returned to her many-fold.
We can take her $100K when we pry it from her righteous hands.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 383 of 424 (768284)
09-10-2015 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by NoNukes
09-10-2015 12:58 AM


Re: Here come da clerk
NoNukes writes:
I consider it to be empty rhetoric.
Exactly.
If it were possible, then it would be, if less courageous than Machiavellian, at least authentic. Since it isn't possible, it's pure chutzpah.
But Huckabee isn't targeting high-information voters. So it may be empty rhetoric and still be effective.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 385 of 424 (768334)
09-10-2015 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by AZPaul3
09-10-2015 8:39 PM


Re: Prelude to War
Miz Davis is so eager for her martyrdom, if the judge orders her jailed, the Oath Keepers would have to shoot her to keep her out.
From what I've seen of them, they might.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 384 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2015 8:39 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 404 of 424 (768638)
09-12-2015 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by ringo
09-12-2015 12:39 PM


ringo writes:
Ah, two thousand years of second-hand commentary is more Biblical than the Bible, in your world.
It took 2000 years of theology--and the lust for secular power--to transform Christian communities into what you see today.
Edited by Omnivorous, : -s

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 423 of 424 (768842)
09-14-2015 12:23 PM


Three cheers for Brian Mason...
...the deputy clerk who now sits at a desk labeled "marriage license deputy" and who issued a license to a lesbian couple this morning.
However...
quote:
As Davis indicated in her statement, the couple's license has the words "pursuant to federal court order" typed on it. Deputy clerk Brian Mason issued and initialed the license.
Curious how every insistence on integrity she employs involves marring someone else's happiness. In a way, I might personally enjoy it as an historial souvenir.
But no one should have to receive a marriage license marred by comments from Ms. Davis. I'd seek an injunction to stop the practice. I don't think she has the authority in law to change the form.
AbE:
quote:
Instead of her name appearing on the license, it said it was issued pursuant to a court order and under the authority of the city of Morehead, Kentucky.
I strongly doubt her authority to do any of this.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

Replies to this message:
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