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Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 33 of 424 (766735)
08-20-2015 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Greatest I am
08-20-2015 1:37 PM


For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.
Do you really believe this?!? If so, can you please explain to me how a literal reading of the following Scripture causes the evils of religion to grow?
quote:
Matt. 5:43-45 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2015 1:37 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2015 9:34 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 133 of 424 (767206)
08-26-2015 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Greatest I am
08-26-2015 7:26 PM


Greatest I Am,
You have spent many pages arguing with Faith about the relation of Christianity to the modern judicial system. I don't see how this relates to your contention that "Religions are fairy tales for adults."
This issue (the relation of Christianity to the modern judicial system) is NOT a primary issue of the Christian faith. There is no unanimity on this among Christians. Besides the Catholic perspective(s?), there are three major Protestant perspectives on this topic. (Faith's perspective follows Calvin. While I agree with Calvin (and Faith) on many fundamental issues, on this issue I am more in line with Luther.)
Even if you can prove Faith wrong on this secondary point, you have not proven that "Religions are fairy tales for adults." Instead of focusing on such secondary issues, why don't you focus on the primary, fundamental tenets of the Christian faith, or of all religions in general?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Greatest I am, posted 08-26-2015 7:26 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Greatest I am, posted 08-27-2015 7:52 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 150 of 424 (767273)
08-27-2015 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Taq
08-27-2015 1:13 PM


FYI, the majority opinion of the recent SCOTUS decision on gay marriage included this section:
SCOTUS writes:
"Finally, it must be emphasized that religions, and those who adhere to religious doctrines, may continue to advocate with utmost, sincere conviction that, by divine precepts, same-sex marriage should not be condoned. The First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths, and to their own deep aspirations to continue the family structure they have long revered. The same is true of those who oppose same-sex marriage for other reasons."

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Taq, posted 08-27-2015 1:13 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Faith, posted 08-27-2015 2:03 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


(1)
Message 179 of 424 (767397)
08-28-2015 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
08-28-2015 4:22 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
quote:
This is exactly what the SCOIUS ruling is going to do, drive Christians out of their jobs, their businesses, etc. etc. etc. This is what we've been saying is going to happen and it is starting to happen, starting with Christian clerks whose faith is contradicted by the ruling. It's going to get worse. Christians who truly believe the Bible is God's word will not act in any way that validates gay marriage. Christians put God above the SCOTUS.
The SCOTUS ruling and the Christian casualties as a result of it are the beginning of the attack on Christianity which is only going to get worse and worse in this country. Which I think is what that wager was about with Dr. Adequate. We can wait for more examples but it's already begun.
But how is this fundamentally any different than other issues that we may disagree with as Christians? What about an OBGYN nurse when the doctor she works for recommends abortion? What about bureaucrats who are asked to issue divorce papers for frivolous reasons? What about hotel staff who are expected to rent rooms to unmarried couples?
I don't see that gay marriage is fundamentally any different than these other issues. The change that it made is quantitative, not qualitative.
Edited by kbertsche, : No reason given.
Edited by kbertsche, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 08-28-2015 4:22 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 09-12-2015 1:45 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 337 of 424 (767927)
09-03-2015 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by New Cat's Eye
09-03-2015 8:35 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
quote:
He didn't, the Bible actually says that these people should be issuing marriage licenses to gays.
We've all heard "render unto Caesar", but Peter spoke about it too:
From 1 Peter 2:
I tend to agree with you on this. However, this case is somewhat more complex than it appears. There is apparently a constitutional conflict in Kentucky. The state constitution apparently defines marriages as between male and female, and the state constitution also claims to take precedence over federal law.
So the state "Caesar" and the federal "Caesar" are in conflict here. She can't obey both. Which "Caesar" should she obey?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 8:35 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2015 6:24 PM kbertsche has not replied
 Message 340 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:07 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 393 of 424 (768440)
09-11-2015 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by dwise1
09-10-2015 11:06 PM


dwise1 writes:
I don't doubt that many of the early Christian martyrs did not wish for their fates, but there were also those who did go out of their way to achieve martyrdom. And we still see that mania for martyrdom today. And it's so strong that they still go out of their way to make it happen.
And there's Origen who wanted to go off to be martyred with his father, but his mother prevented it by hiding his clothes.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by dwise1, posted 09-10-2015 11:06 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
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