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Author | Topic: New Species of Homo Discovered: Homo naledi | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
(meme): it's all in the hips" Indeed. Unfortunately we will have to wait for a reconstructed pelvis for H. naledi. What we do have suggests that it is similar to Australopithicus or intermediate with them and H. habilis. Might be able to look at the femurs to see how the socket would need to be oriented. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray, lasthero
I'd say Ken Ham has it right. It is an animal, and it is an ape. Curiously I feel that if Ken Ham says something it is usually wrong ... But Homo sapiens sapiens and all members of the Homo clade are members of the ape clade and all apes are members of the animal clade, so in that sense he is correct, but I get the feeling that you think Homo naledi is not human (Homo) -- can you tell me why, what is your basis for this? Presumably you have looked through the evidence and read the technical paper with the comparisons to other fossils, yes? (see Message 1 for links). Why do you think Kurt Wise is wrong? Enjoy
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quote: also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window. For other formatting tips see Posting TipsFor a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 Edited by RAZD, : splng Edited by RAZD, : clrty Edited by RAZD, : correctionby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Let's ALL try to keep the focus on Homo naledi, and perhaps take the discussion of other fossils to the Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win. thread.
For instance
... How did we get this neat progression of types of middle ear bones as described by Mr. Hertzler, in what sounds like a similarly smooth gradation from one type to another, each perfectly fitted to its reptilian or reptilian-mammalian or mammalian host? ... See Message 113 on the Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win. thread. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The part I put in small type, about the medical students who might operate on him is just irrelevant emotional puff. Knowledge of human anatomy they certainly need, but there's no way reptile-mammal evolution could help them in the slightest to operate on a human being. The point, Faith, was that IF the information in the journals was all made up arbitrary evolutionist nonsense, then those students were studying arbitrary evolutionist nonsense.
Anyway, I find myself having the same sorts of questions I had about Dr. A's skulls. The supposed evolutionary sequence is just too pat, too "just so" to be realistic. Where are the "errors," or at least the deviations from the too-too perfect path from the reptilian to the mammalian adaptation? Doesn't evolution ever make mistakes? But of course you'll say it does, all the time, and yet this sort of perfect sequence is what you give for evidence. How did we get this neat progression of skulls from small cranial capacity to large human cranial capacity with such plausible morphological gradations from one to another of the skulls? No Faith, evolution does not make errors -- it is not a person. The reason we find such a neat pattern is because it is the history of evolution as it occurred, a little change here, a little change there, and over time creating the path from early hominid to modern man. This path has many side branches, cousins, like the Neanderthals. But the main point is that IF you have an actual evolutionary lineage, THEN there will be intermediate stages from one point to another in the fossil record. Finding intermediates confirms this.
Homo naledi is the latest find in a field with increasing numbers of intermediates between a common ancestor with Chimpanzees and modern humans. It fits neatly into the sequence shown. The similarities between (A) and (B,C) point to that common ancestor. Here is one image of possible lineage from 1998 with skull images:
Fossil Skulls! quote: Note that this is interactive on the referenced page so that you can pick a skull and get further information on it. Another version of such a tree can be seen at
The human story: We’re still here! quote: You can check these against the Talk Origins skulls picture that DrA posted: 29 Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1 You can also note that the new find, Homo naledi fits into these diagrams, as does a previous find by Lee Berger of Australopithicus sediba quote: MH1 quote: Arranged by time the evolutionary trends appear. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : addedby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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So now we come to the reconstructed skull of Homo naledi:
quote: Again there is a lot of detailed information that follows this, discussing the differences and similarities to other skulls. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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'naledi' is remarkably similar to the Czech for 'on ice'. So we have a creature dubbed 'man on ice' with feet very similar to our own. Only one reasonable conclusion: My Canadian side likes that ... although that may be evidence of a more primitive human behavioral system, rather than a derived one ... maybe the small brain fits in there too ... In my own reading I first read it as "nailed it" ... ie got it right the first time. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Here are the other two parts:
Homo nalediAnother Awesome Twig on the Human Family Tree, Part 2 With this sketch of the cave chamber:
and
Homo nalediAnother Awesome Twig on the Human Family Tree, Part 3 With this picture of the assembled skull:
and this comment:
quote: As mentioned before, it is the spacial\temporal matrix that is important to determining the evolutionary trends of fossils. AND there is a link to some interview videos with Berger made during the dig. Lots of information there. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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So we now have the modeled skull:
quote: And the assembled head of Dinaledi Hominin 1 (DH1) from the NSCS part 3 article:
and I would expect a more complete model of the complete skull using scaled elements from DH2 and DH3 could be produced, but I have not yet found a picture of this. I have seen glimpses of a model skull using DH1 but can't tell from it what else is included. Looking at wikipedia there is also this picture showing something like a reconstruction of H. naledi:
I don't think these are to scale (no info on that) ... All we need is a frontal and we can add it to the picture that Dr A has posted. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : added wiki profiles Edited by RAZD, : add skull Edited by Admin, : Reduce image width. Edited by Admin, : Rerender for mobile usability.by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
and it's not just because they are socially backwards and a little mixed up ...
quote: More at link. What we see from the fossils is a lot of mix and match with other hominids, a fact which speaks to not just a mosaic of developments, but a braided past of possible hominid interbreeding, similar to the way we know Cro Magnon and Neander interbred, leaving us with hybrid traits? And the question remains: where do they fit in the natural history of hominids. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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