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Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(4)
Message 286 of 1639 (769278)
09-18-2015 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by RAZD
09-16-2015 2:15 PM


Re: Things Mike Huckabee Doesn't Know
So I guess if you are accustomed to picking and choosing which bible verses you live by, you would think you can do the same with the constitution?
I have found that there is an indirect relationship between someone's claim of "sticking up for the Constitution" and their actual support for the Constitution. The same goes for their knowledge of the Constitution. Most conservatives think Article III should be removed entirely from the Constitution, or even worse, they are unaware that it exists.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 287 of 1639 (769284)
09-18-2015 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by RAZD
09-16-2015 2:15 PM


Re: Things Mike Huckabee Doesn't Know
And that blacks are not really full US citizens because of the Supreme Court Dred Scott decision ... even though that decision has been rendered moot by actual congressional approved law -- the 14th amendment.
To the best of my knowledge, the Dred Scott decision was never explicitly overruled. Some parts of its holding are quite obviously bad law. Namely the portions related to citizenship and the rights of black people are null and void in face of the 13-15th amendments.
On the other hand, some parts are merely moot but not overruled, like the question of whether a slave becomes free when taken into a state outlawing the practice. Or the question of whether or not federal law allows the government to affect property rights in general the way slavery was affected with the Missouri Compromise.
Every so often some one will cite Dred Scott in a legal brief but most lawyers have better sense than to do so. The few that will cite Scott generally will cite other law and decisions. Nobody worth listening to would seriously cite the case in an attempt to question the rights of black people in the US. That would be stupid.
Dred Scott case was decided on a large number of grounds. One reason a colored person could not sue in US court was because he was not a citizen and because he could not demonstrate citizenship in a foreign country because records of his (or his parents) being "imported" from some country were never available. That holding may still be applicable to foreigners who find themselves in a similar situation.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 288 of 1639 (769306)
09-19-2015 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by NoNukes
09-18-2015 6:23 PM


the dreaded Dred Scott undecision
To the best of my knowledge, the Dred Scott decision was never explicitly overruled. Some parts of its holding are quite obviously bad law. Namely the portions related to citizenship and the rights of black people are null and void in face of the 13-15th amendments.
So huckster Huckabee is blowing smoke for political gain (wotta surprise).
On the other hand, some parts are merely moot but not overruled, ...
Once again it seems to me that there needs to be some system of "cleaning house" to specifically revoke laws and parts of laws that are no longer relevant, perhaps a 25 year review?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 289 of 1639 (769310)
09-19-2015 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Diomedes
09-18-2015 10:03 AM


Re: A view into a Donald Trump Voter
Diomedes writes:
A birther, a bigot and a moron all wrapped up in one package. And so is the guy asking the question.
Trump
We've long expected any fascist march in the U.S. to carry the Cross and the Flag.
Now we can add the Trademark.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 290 of 1639 (769311)
09-19-2015 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by RAZD
09-19-2015 7:33 AM


Re: the dreaded Dred Scott undecision
Once again it seems to me that there needs to be some system of "cleaning house" to specifically revoke laws and parts of laws that are no longer relevant, perhaps a 25 year review?
What issue is raised by Dred Scott not being overruled? Some irrelevant idiot mouthing off about the constitution does not seem all that important to me. The fourteenth amendment says that all anyone needs to prove that they are a real citizen is their birth certificate.
Beyond that, the way we overrule case law is by deciding new cases, and those cases can only overrule relevant parts of other case law. The assumption is that parts of a case that are not overruled are likely to be good law. You cannot remove case law by a simple review process in the same way you can clean up statutes. And even a statute review would be a waste of time and money.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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 Message 288 by RAZD, posted 09-19-2015 7:33 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 291 of 1639 (769317)
09-19-2015 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Taq
09-18-2015 4:12 PM


Founding Fathered to Death
Taq writes:
I have found that there is an indirect relationship between someone's claim of "sticking up for the Constitution" and their actual support for the Constitution.
Sixty years ago, someone talking about the Constitution was likely to be advocating for the rights of marginalized populations, or broadening social discourse to include previously forbidden content. Nowadays, whenever someone mentions the Constitution, it's almost certain that the person is a gun-nut or a pissed-off white guy.
And the line cuts both ways. It's not like the Constitution specifically mentions separation of Church and State, either. We atheists have just become used to the myth that the Constitution affords us freedom from religion in any form. Don't get me wrong, I don't think religion should have influence over public policy or education, and I don't believe for a minute that religion is "under siege"; but complaining about crches and crosses is tired stuff. And using the word Constitution as if it shuts down all discussion of the topic makes us sound like gun nuts.
Edited by MrHambre, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 292 of 1639 (769318)
09-19-2015 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by MrHambre
09-19-2015 11:13 AM


Re: Founding Fathered to Death
It's not like the Constitution specifically mentions separation of Church and State, either.
But it is kinda like Jefferson and Madison did. And since James Madison wrote the First Amendment, it's nice to know what he thought it meant.
... but complaining about crches and crosses is tired stuff.
Yeah, religious freedom is so ten years ago. Why don't atheists take up something that's more now?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 293 of 1639 (769455)
09-21-2015 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by RAZD
09-19-2015 7:33 AM


Re: the dreaded Dred Scott undecision
NoNukes writes:
On the other hand, some parts are merely moot but not overruled, ...
RAZD writes:
Once again it seems to me that there needs to be some system of "cleaning house" to specifically revoke laws and parts of laws that are no longer relevant, perhaps a 25 year review?
Dred Scott was not a law, but a Supreme Court decision. And there are very, VERY good reasons why we don't want those to have a sunset provision. Can you imagine how insane presidential elections would be if the continued validity of Brown v. Board of Education, Marbury v. Madison, Gideon v. Wainwright, Miranda v. Arizona, Mapp v. Ohio were in issue?
I can understand the impetus behind sunset provisions generally, but the idea of applying them to matters of fundamental rights scares the hell out of me.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(3)
Message 294 of 1639 (769494)
09-21-2015 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by subbie
09-21-2015 9:31 AM


Another one bites the dust...
Scott Walker just dropped out of the Presidential race:
Scott Walker drops out of 2016 race | CNN Politics
Should we start a 'Dead Pool' on who might be next?

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 295 of 1639 (769495)
09-21-2015 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Diomedes
09-21-2015 5:29 PM


Re: Another one bites the dust...
Christie?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(2)
Message 296 of 1639 (769498)
09-21-2015 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Diomedes
09-21-2015 5:29 PM


Re: Another one bites the dust...
Unfortunately he will now be back looking for bigger and better ways to screw over my lovely Wisconsin.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 297 of 1639 (769500)
09-21-2015 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Asgara
09-21-2015 6:37 PM


Re: Another one bites the dust...
As a fellow Wisconsinite I know of which you speak.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 298 of 1639 (769509)
09-21-2015 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Diomedes
09-21-2015 5:29 PM


Re: Another one bites the dust...
Diomedes writes:
Scott Walker just dropped out of the Presidential race
I'm relieved. I'd rather the Dem candidate have to run against an ineffectual blowhard like Trump or Christie than an opponent like Walker, who has enough actual union-busting cred to fire the imaginations of all the laissez-faire fantasists in the population of this former superpower.
Edited by MrHambre, : No reason given.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 299 of 1639 (769513)
09-21-2015 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Asgara
09-21-2015 6:37 PM


Killer Klowns from Depraved Spaces
Asgara writes:
Unfortunately he will now be back looking for bigger and better ways to screw over my lovely Wisconsin.
But he did double-down on Wisconsin as the nation's leader in cheese.
I think Lindsey Graham might go next. The Red Staters are calling him a sissy, and he can't muster enough crazy to get taken seriously.
Cruz looks like Robert Mitchum with subtle chromosonal aberrations, so he'll probably survive a while due to the Southern base--I'd like to see him in a top hat and moustache: "If you don't give me the Constitution, I'm gonna blow y'all to bits!" Jindal hasn't looked into a mirror for 30 years, apparently, and denial always lasts longer than one thinks it possibly could.
I'd like to see more GOP women run, but watching Fiorina calmly describe the recent Planned Parent hoax video as containing true scenes of aborted fetuses squirming on the table while doctors discussed harvesting its living brain (uh, no) makes me wonder--the bar for women is always higher, and they're just aren't that many rich, intensely sociopathic women in the U.S. Her personal success story is like Trump's: "I got rich bankrupting other people. So sue me." She can't maintain prominence without Trump's insults...so maybe a shared ticket? Lots of abusive relationships are like that.
Graham has always interested me. Like John McCain, he has the look of a man desperately trying to figure out how to buy back his soul. But Graham is also a professional pol, and, like Walker, he'll be calculating the future cost of hanging there without support vs. "the good of the party".
By the way, I think we could buy Trump out with a Kickstarter campaign. They've recently recast themselves as a public benefit corporation, and he loves to deal, so that could work. Remember, you heard it here first
So, yeah, Lindsey, exit stage right: Nothing in his hat, and nothing up his sleeve.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(4)
Message 300 of 1639 (769514)
09-21-2015 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by Omnivorous
09-21-2015 7:28 PM


Re: Killer Klowns from Depraved Spaces
But he did double-down on Wisconsin as the nation's leader in cheese
Side note... I've always hated the California Happy Cow campaign... Everyone knows the best cheese is born from adversity.

This message is a reply to:
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