Is Christianity Evil?

I don't have an opinion of what the Christian message is, I'm just reporting what most of them say it is. You have an opinion, they have different ones. As do all the others. There's no way of knowing whether any of them are correct - people just seem to either accept the one they're born into, or, if they're lucky enough to live in a liberal democracy, pick the one that suits their personality best.

And that is true for all people whether believers or not. The only people who do not have that instinct are those that are mentally ill.Religious belief is therefore redundant - an unnecessary and often dangerous addition to something that is normal human behaviour.

No there isn't. (Do you see the problem with bald assertions?) GDR said that anyone who leads a good life would get to heaven (i paraphrase). Therefore a belief in God is redundant.

Of course we do, empathy is a normal, everyday human emotion. That's not true at all. Humans behave differently in different circumstances but there are countless examples of self-sacrifice and we put our close family in front of ourselves routinely.This idea that only the religious do unselfish things is crazy, and a tad insulting.

Our natural predilection is to both look after people and to look after ourselves. We have both instincts in a precarious balance. Keeping the balance towards pro-social activities was once the province of the church and the king - often the same thing. Modern socities do it through criminal justice systems, democratic processes, education and other social structures.People will keep or hand in the $10 bill depending on all sorts of circumstances - a big one is whether anyone is watching. That's a classic sociological experiment which demonstrates that people have both emotions/instincts - if they didn't care what others thought of them and were only self-centred, they'd pocket the bill every time.

This is just mincing words - self interest and self preservation are all part of the same instinct/mechanism which all animals have. You don't have to agree, it's an observable behaviour. Empathy is instinctive and primitive behaviour that can be measured by fMRI. Your 'still small voice' is an emotion, an instict - brain activity. It is reinforced by parents and society, but it is there regardless - with the exception of pyschopaths where no amount of societal interventions can make them 'normal' - they have to mechanically learn the behaviours expected of them, they don't 'feel' them. No it doesn't. people have both the selfish instinct and the selfless instinct - they're in balance and can swing either way depending on circumstances. One important circumstance is whether anyone is watching. Some people always would, some people always wouldn't. Most people would be inbetween. It depends on many unknown variables. In your case one important variable would be your belief that Jesus would expect you to return it. In my case it would be because my values - which were derived frim my society, my parents, my own innate sense of right and wrong, and whether I needed it to save the world etc etc etc.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

You have singled out empathy as a special, god given, attribute for no other reason than it correlates with your beliefs system. This 'still small voice' and 'heart' stuff is just you saying god does it. In fact it's just another emotion like anger or fear. It's a human instinct (which is found in many other social animals.) Why do you not think that anger - 'the turbulent, large voice' is not the devil? Or do you? I've tried to explain this to you before but you seem to prefer to forget it. Most of the brain does not deal with rational decision making - executive functioning. Almost all of it - the most primitive parts deal with autonomous functioning - the things that allow you to breath and walk and pump blood around your body without having to actually think about it. Empathy is one such autonomus function - we don't think about wether we feel sorry for another person's predicament, we instinctively feel it. That instinct is developed to greater or lessor degree by traing and background. But can be entirely missing.This feeling can be seen with fMRI and is not in your control - like a knee jerk reflex, it's not a thought process it's a reaction. Of course after the feeling of compassion happens, the rational brain can then decide what to do about it, but the body has already cast its vote.Empathy and compassion is not a thought process or a rational choice it starts as a feeling and often stays that way.

To coin a phrase 'Oh Good grief'.My position is based on our hard won scientific knowledge. You have singled out a specific human emotion called compassion or empathy and made it supernatural. Does that really make sense to you? Empathy is a physiological, measurable, predictable, replicable, reflex reaction found in all people - with the exception the mentally ill. As it seems so important to you, why don't you read some papers on it - these things are regularly reported in the press. It seems daft ro me to carry on making mistakes about the stuff we're learning about. It is part of a process and it does exist - it's real and it's natural. It's no different than happiness, love or anger, lust, fear, saddness - whatever the complex list is now. There's no reason whatsoever to single empathy out as special and non-evolved. Of course you can say that your god set all that in motion at 'the creation' and I can't argue with that but I can argue with you if - as seems to be the case - that you are saying that god is intervening with this still little voice stuff in real time. Is that your position?

Well that's your prerogative - you can believe what you like.But it's rather hard to unscramble just what it is that you and GDR mean by this 'still small voice'. In this discussion it's been about feeling empathy and compassion for others and therefore being motivated to help them. Are you saying that the feeling of empathy you have when you see another human suffer is god speaking directly to you every time you feel it?

Well there's nothing I can say to that Phat except you're just making stuff up.Don't you think it more likely that people have different quantities of empathy like they have different quantities of height? That they might pick up caring values from others or that they may just find vocation that suits them? Why does god have to get directly involved and how? Why you and not me, or the guy next door? And how do you know?