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Author Topic:   How long does it take to evolve?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(4)
Message 46 of 221 (769860)
09-25-2015 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Lamden
09-25-2015 2:06 PM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
I am still unclear what you hope to gain from this exercise.
...if toe could Happen, ev wins.
There is no if. Evolution has already won. It not only could happen, it did happen and continues to happen. We already know this with an exceptional level of confidence and certainty. If your goal is to convince the nay-sayers and creationists then you should know by now that isn't going to happen. There already are tons of much stronger evidence they choose to ignore. Saying you think it may have taken this x many mutations and this x amount of time, will be ignored like everything else they have been presented.
If this exercise is intended to show that evolution can happen and can make complex multi-cellular structures like humans and oak trees, we already know that. This "mutation time-line" data point you may develop will not do anything to change any opinions.
But, hey, academic exercises can be fun without ultimately being of any use.
The major problem you face is in identifying all the steps required in that mutation time-line. There are billions of them. No one can even begin to identify a bunch of them let alone most of them or, heaven forbid, all of them. The best that might be done is to sum experienced and knowledgeable speculations from a list of specialists in everything from intra-cellular messenger protein cascades to zygotic structure generation with the expectation that most of these will be off by 2,3,4 orders of magnitude. The end result may be a pretty number that you will have already determined is not even close to accurate. And, further, you will know that this time-line is not anything close to what actually happened to get from simple proto-bacteria to human.
So, again, why are we doing this?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Lamden, posted 09-25-2015 2:06 PM Lamden has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 9:36 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 72 by Pressie, posted 09-30-2015 7:48 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 47 of 221 (770019)
09-28-2015 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Lamden
09-25-2015 10:50 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
Oh, I did understand Lamden. You presented a false dilemma. I understand that very, very well. Are you able to understand it, darling? Honey?
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Lamden, posted 09-25-2015 10:50 AM Lamden has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 48 of 221 (770046)
09-28-2015 3:49 PM


How long does it take for Lamden to return with some answers?
I think it will be a long time.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 49 of 221 (770059)
09-28-2015 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by RAZD
09-25-2015 1:20 PM


Re: the other side of the question
RAZD writes:
What was the most primitive form of life and when did it appear?
Blue-green (cyano) bacteria around 3.7 - 3.8 billion years ago on a 4.5 billion year old rock, in the oldest known strata of sedimentary rock.
What was the earliest "human being" and when did it appear?
6 million to 2 million years ago, depending on what you call "human being" ... (Homo or Homo sapiens sapiens?)
I actually knew those answers, more or less, but I was curious about Lamden's take on the questions. An honest reply from Lamden would have been revealing, I think.
But I apparently put myself beyond the pale earlier, and no longer merit his replies.
I will soldier on.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by RAZD, posted 09-25-2015 1:20 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 50 of 221 (770078)
09-29-2015 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by AZPaul3
09-25-2015 7:13 PM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
AZPaul3 writes:
There is no if. Evolution has already won
Now I understand freemasonary and secret societies, the promotion of evolution makes perfect sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by AZPaul3, posted 09-25-2015 7:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 9:41 AM Big_Al35 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 51 of 221 (770079)
09-29-2015 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Big_Al35
09-29-2015 9:36 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
Ahh, yes. Dumbass conspiracy weenies. Gotta love 'em.
Welcome back, Big_Al35.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 9:36 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 9:55 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 52 of 221 (770080)
09-29-2015 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by AZPaul3
09-29-2015 9:41 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
AZPaul3 writes:
Welcome back, Big_Al35
Thanks, yes I don't argue the toss much anymore. However, I thought I would put a spotlight on that Dawkins fellow. It is rumoured that he is a freemason. Hitchens is possibly another. There is even a video of them in what appears to be a blue lodge. Hmmm makes you wonder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 9:41 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 10:05 AM Big_Al35 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 53 of 221 (770081)
09-29-2015 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Big_Al35
09-29-2015 9:55 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
...that Dawkins fellow. It is rumoured that he is a freemason. Hitchens is possibly another.
Well, Hitch is dead and Dawkins is atheist. You cannot be an active member of a Blue Lodge in either of those conditions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 9:55 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 10:10 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 54 of 221 (770082)
09-29-2015 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by AZPaul3
09-29-2015 10:05 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
AZPaul3 writes:
Well, Hitch is dead and Dawkins is atheist. You cannot be an active member of a Blue Lodge in either of those conditions
You seem to know an awful lot about it. Care to elaborate how you got this information?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 10:05 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 10:21 AM Big_Al35 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 55 of 221 (770084)
09-29-2015 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Big_Al35
09-29-2015 10:10 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
Care to elaborate how you got this information?
No.
And, no, I am not a mason. I am atheist. I am not allowed into the foyer let alone the meeting lodge.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 10:10 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 11:00 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 56 of 221 (770087)
09-29-2015 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by AZPaul3
09-29-2015 10:21 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
AZPaul3 writes:
And, no, I am not a mason. I am atheist. I am not allowed into the foyer let alone the meeting lodge
I guess you tried to get into that foyer right? It's funny but I am a christian and yet I've never been invited to join a lodge.
Edited by Big_Al35, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 10:21 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 11:09 AM Big_Al35 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 57 of 221 (770088)
09-29-2015 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Big_Al35
09-29-2015 11:00 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
I guess you tried to get into that foyer right?
The Great Architect and I parted ways back in High School. I have never had an interest in joining a religious organization.
It's funny but I am a christian and yet I've never been invited to join a lodge.
You never will be invited. That's not the way it works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 11:00 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 11:20 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 64 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 3:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Big_Al35
Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 389
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 58 of 221 (770089)
09-29-2015 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by AZPaul3
09-29-2015 11:09 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
AZPaul3 writes:
You never will be invited. That's not the way it works
Story of my life. I can't even get a member rating on these forums ffs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 11:09 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 11:41 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 59 of 221 (770090)
09-29-2015 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Big_Al35
09-29-2015 11:20 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
I can't even get a member rating on these forums ffs.
You're trying to set me off on a rant aren't you?
Member ratings are juvenile. Most of us here are at least supposed to act like adults. You don't need a member rating. I don't need a member rating. In fact, you can have mine! I give it to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Big_Al35, posted 09-29-2015 11:20 AM Big_Al35 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by herebedragons, posted 09-29-2015 12:39 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(2)
Message 60 of 221 (770095)
09-29-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by AZPaul3
09-29-2015 11:41 AM


Re: Thanks to all of you for reading my question
I don't need a member rating. In fact, you can have mine! I give it to you.
Of course you're willing to give your's away, it's a piddly 4.9; but if you had a much better rating, like say a 7.5 or higher, you might not be so willing...
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 11:41 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2015 1:42 PM herebedragons has not replied
 Message 70 by Omnivorous, posted 09-29-2015 6:15 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
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