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Author Topic:   Turning Kids into Sex Offenders
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1 of 4 (772153)
11-07-2015 8:29 AM


This is an old issue, though maybe not older than dating. Back in the days of arranged marriages this was probably much less a problem, but today kids date, and they date across the age of consent boundary, creating legal conundrums that somethings balloon into a lifetime of disgrace. We all remember the story of the 18-year old boy who, caught having sex with a consenting 16-year old girl, must now register as a sex offender until the end of his days.
Today's New York Times reports on the shock and dismay when Hundreds of Nude Photos Jolt Colorado School. Intriguing excerpts:
quote:
George Welsh, the superintendent of the Caon City school system, said students at Caon City High School had been circulating 300 to 400 nude photographs, including images of certainly over 100 different kids, on their cellphones. This is a lot of kids involved, he said, adding that the children in the pictures were believed to be students at the high school as well as eighth graders from the middle school.
...
Because it is a felony to possess or distribute child pornography, the charges could be serious. But because most of the people at fault are themselves minors and, in some cases, took pictures of themselves and sent them to others, law enforcement officials are at a loss as to how to proceed. Consenting adults can do this to their hearts’ content, said Thom LeDoux, the district attorney, but if the subject is under the age of 18, that’s a problem.
What, exactly, is the law when minors sext nude pictures of themselves? Has the minor committed a crime? If a minor sexts another minor, is that a crime? If a minor sexts an adult, is that a crime? If not a crime for the minor, is it a crime for the adult? If a 17-year old girl sexts her 18-year old boyfriend, has the boyfriend committed a crime? To avoid potential culpability, must be report the incident to the police?
Naturally the above is just me speculating freely. I don't know the law or the details of the law, plus the laws differ widely between jurisdictions. A crime in one jurisdiction might just be c'est la vie in another, but I think in many cases the only thing preventing arrest of minors is the discretion of police, not a very comforting prospect.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by caffeine, posted 11-07-2015 9:32 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3 by Omnivorous, posted 11-07-2015 8:56 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by NoNukes, posted 11-07-2015 10:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1046 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 2 of 4 (772156)
11-07-2015 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-07-2015 8:29 AM


The habit of prosecuting teenagers for having sex with other teenagers a year or two younger than me still shocks me. The CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) in England and Wales has guidelines that you don't prosecute someone for sex with a minor if the two parties are of a similar age. Obviously, 'similar' leaves things open to intepretation still, but it is evident to all that a 16-yr-old shouldn't be prosecuted for consensual sex with a 15-yr-old. Northern Ireland has similar rules, in that there's no requirement to report sex with a minor to the police if the perpetrator is under 18 (unless the other party is under 13). I can't fathom why somesuch rule was not introduced in the US the first time some teenager became a convicted sex offender for sleeping with his girlfriend.
In the case you're describing, it seems doubtful to me that anyone committed a criminal offense (with the clarification that I mean my idea of what should be an offense - no idea what actually is in US law). Criminalising the inappropriate behaviour of children seems a very dangerous road to go down, considering how many stupid things most children do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-07-2015 8:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 3 of 4 (772166)
11-07-2015 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-07-2015 8:29 AM


Percy writes:
A crime in one jurisdiction might just be c'est la vie in another, but I think in many cases the only thing preventing arrest of minors is the discretion of police, not a very comforting prospect.
It's particularly discomfiting when you consider how many cops turn out to be sexual predators.
Hundreds Of Cops Kicked Off Force For Committing Sex Crimes
quote:
[A] simple question - how many law enforcement officers are accused of sexual misconduct - has no definitive answer. The federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, which collects police data from around the country, doesn't track officer arrests, and states aren't required to collect or share that information.
To measure the problem, the AP obtained records from 41 states on police decertification, an administrative process in which an officer's law enforcement license is revoked. Cases from 2009 through 2014 were then reviewed to determine whether they stemmed from misconduct meeting the Department of Justice standard for sexual assault - sexual contact that happens without consent, including intercourse, sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling and attempted rape.
Nine states and the District of Columbia said they either did not decertify officers for misconduct or declined to provide information.
Of those that did release records, the AP determined that some 550 officers were decertified for sexual assault, including rape and sodomy, sexual shakedowns in which citizens were extorted into performing favors to avoid arrest, or gratuitous pat-downs. Some 440 officers lost their badges for other sex offenses, such as possessing child pornography, or for sexual misconduct that included being a peeping Tom, sexting juveniles or having on-duty intercourse.
We've seen what happens when violence-prone officers interact with sass-prone (or merely unsubmissive) young people. The notion of them policing the sexual mores of kids gives me the shudders; I'd give odds those photos have gone viral among the Canon City force, and I'd be surprised if the outing of the photos doesn't result in predation on some of the students. I recall that during arrests at 60s and 70s protests, the ladies being pawed and groped by the cops was as common as tear gassing peaceful assemblies.
I think it's okay if the kids see each other naked; they probably should. Like French kids casually introduced to wine, it might ease some of the hypersexualized American gaze. But the admixture of prurient adult authority is a recipe for trouble. At the same time, such photos are often used for revenge porn, blackmail and shaming, so there needs to be some access to authority that doesn't set off alarms to the Sex Pistols in Blue; and these kids, like the ones ruining future job prospects with gnarly Facebook rants and pix, need to realize that the web is forever.
Still, I can't help but envy the technology. We had to actually get together and disrobe: you simply had to take your chances, just like a box of chocolates with no map. On the other hand, if I'd had to shop around nude photos of myself, I might've been in better shape. Or had a lot less fun.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-07-2015 8:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 4 (772168)
11-07-2015 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-07-2015 8:29 AM


What, exactly, is the law when minors sext nude pictures of themselves?
Generally speaking, laws against child porn deal with the content and probably have nothing to say at all about the age of the perps. Once the children are above the age for making decisions, they are assumed to have the mens rea to commit crimes.
f a 17-year old girl sexts her 18-year old boyfriend, has the boyfriend committed a crime? To avoid potential culpability, must be report the incident to the police?
No, the boyfriend has not committed a crime if he he simply receives unsolicited kid porn. I'd say the same for an adult that received the material without solicitation. Reporting the incident may help convince people that he did not solicit the material, but simply deleting any unsolicited material ought to avoid meeting the elements of a crime.
but I think in many cases the only thing preventing arrest of minors is the discretion of police, not a very comforting prospect.
As bad as an arrest might be, prosecution afterwards is even more scary. And it is not the police who decide such things.
In a recent NC case, two 16 year olds were charged for taking explicit photos. If instead they had been caught doing the actual deed, they would not have committed any offense at all.
2 North Carolina teens hit with child porn charges after consensual sexting | Ars Technica
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-07-2015 8:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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