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Author Topic:   Does Atheism = No beliefs?
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 35 of 414 (551360)
03-22-2010 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Den
03-22-2010 6:40 AM


Acommitism?
Once you commit to Atheism ...
I understand it may be difficult for a theist to comprehend but there is no such thing as a commitment to atheism. There is nothing to commit to in being an atheist.
As a theist you must positively avow to a specific creed and must give allegiance to the dictates of your priests. You must commit yourself heart and soul to a specific set of theistic beliefs. Atheists lack the above. There is no creed, no priests, no allegiance to which an atheist can commit in this religious sense.
Other than theistic ones, all other philosophies, political, social, moral, etc. are as open to an atheist as they are to anyone else.
And I submit that as an atheist I am more enabled to follow the evidence wherever it may lead rather than as a theist who draws the conclusion first then tries to twist and shoehorn the evidence into some justification.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 55 of 414 (551429)
03-22-2010 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by New Cat's Eye
03-22-2010 5:14 PM


Personally, I'm not very religious. And I too am opposed to the extremely religious christians who act the same way as these "religious" atheists that I'm describing.
You're going to have a hard time backing off this CS, I understand, but, you are conflating the irreligious passion of some atheists with religious zeal. It may seem justified in your mind right now but it is a false comparison. Religion has a well defined connotation in society. Atheist, like evolutionist or numismatist, no matter at what level of passion, does not fit.
My advise: just swallow hard and leave the fight on this one.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 60 of 414 (551448)
03-22-2010 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by New Cat's Eye
03-22-2010 6:48 PM


Since they're all Southern Baptists, I guess not.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 64 of 414 (551468)
03-22-2010 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by marc9000
03-22-2010 7:46 PM


Differences Differ
You are a dedicated theist. I understand this is difficult for you to wrap your mind around. You seem to need to see atheist as some sort of body of philosophical parameters. More so you seem want to see atheist as a competitive religious sect. It is not.
Each atheist chooses their own mix of philosophical tenants. Some are Humanists, some are epicurean, some are Spinozan, choose any one of a hundred philosophies. There are even atheist Republicans. Hell we're more fragmented than even you christians!
Zeal or passion does not make a religion. You may take poetic license to describe a strong emotion as 'religious' but that does not fit the formal definition of what a religion entails.
Is there a single atheist who doesn't agree with this?
Well, I don't personally know all of them but I would say, just off-hand, that somewhere in the 10s of millions may not totally agree. I can see some attraction but I cannot say I agree.
Doesn't this unite them in a way comparable to religion?
Nope.
Edited by AZPaul3, : Fix something. Never mind what it was.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 65 of 414 (551469)
03-22-2010 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by marc9000
03-22-2010 8:28 PM


They're (atheists) not united by evolution?
Nope.
[abe] And, Marc, as for your avatar ... nope there as well.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 70 of 414 (551512)
03-22-2010 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Granny Magda
03-22-2010 9:32 PM


If the Shoe Fits ...
PS, regarding your avatar; yes, twice, but my aim with a shoe is improving...
So you're the one!
Should have practiced more before.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 122 of 414 (551731)
03-23-2010 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by marc9000
03-23-2010 8:17 PM


Re: Differences Differ
I don't "need" to see it, I just see it!
You make my point for me and not realize it.
I'm just saying that atheism tends to organize its people in certain ways, with beliefs about how the world works or how society should function.
Being atheist does no such thing. The philosophies non-believers adopt does this. We're counted among Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, liberals, Stamp Collectors (both left and right-wing). And there are a whole slew of atheists who defy classification because they really don't give a damn one way or the other. And they all vary form and content from person to person.
There are respected polls that clearly show a correlation between science and atheism.
Good god I should hope so. The requirement for objective evidence should not be an on-the-job-only thing. When you work in these fields and find no evidence for any supernatural anything anywhere then there is really nothing religious in which to believe, is there.
One doesn't need to be atheist to be a scientist but to be otherwise is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?
I agree that Christians are fragmented. Hence the many descriptive terms, like "mainstream Christians", "fundie Christians", "theistic evolutionists" that are often found on message boards such as these.
No, no, no, Marc. I mean fragmented!
38,000 Christian denominations, different bibles, different creeds, different rituals, different interpretations, different philosophies all professing to be the one TRUE faith in Christ.
Now atheists are the same way. We have different everything but without any claim to truth or faith or evolution or pink unicorns or anything else. We're talking some 60 million different atheist views in the USA alone!
That is what I mean by fragmented.
Any label you want to put on groups of atheists, any box you try to fit us into for identification, will be wrong.
Unlike the "Old Order German Baptist Brethren" or the "Apostolic Assemblies of God" there is no philosophy common to Atheist. An acceptance of the Theory of Evolution, the Germ Theory of Disease and Far-Right Anarchic Monarchy do not make an atheist. They are incidental to his non-belief in your specific brand of god, or any other brand of god.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 200 of 414 (774505)
12-18-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
12-18-2015 11:36 AM


Re: Fig Newton Of Your Imagination
Give us the boy until he is seven and we will give you the man.
The gentler word is indoctrination. The harsher is brainwashing.
It is not so much that the religionist’s beliefs are the product of their imagination as they are the product of other’s imaginations deliberately planted in fertile young minds. The process involves constant repetition while being shielded from contrary ideas. Thus the man’s mind is set in his youth to such an extent that in the lifetime of experience that follows no reality can alter the embedded programming.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 210 of 414 (774603)
12-19-2015 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by ringo
12-19-2015 12:23 PM


I personally don't believe that any gods exist but I don't self-identify as an atheist.
Technically, if you hold to no theistic creed you are a-theist by definition, from the Greek atheos - without god.
That does not preclude you from also being agnostic, from the Greek agnost or agnotos - not knowing or incapable of being known.
Of course, then, there is always pedantic, from the Middle French pedante - (1) to put unnecessary emphasis on minor or trivial rules or points of learning, thereby displaying a scholarship lacking in proportion or judgment, displays of which are often ostentatious, though occasionally fun. (2) asshole.
here
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 215 of 414 (774617)
12-19-2015 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by kbertsche
12-19-2015 8:34 PM


An atheist makes the truth-claim that "no god exists".
No, kbertsche. You attribute false claims to those you do not, you can not, know. Unacceptable. While the activist atheist, such as myself, will approach the "no god exists" idea, many do not and more do not care. The only commonality is that we do not follow a theistic path.
... it means that those who DO believe in the existence of a god must be deluded, or ignorant, or evil.
Me, personally (and ,no, I do not speak for all), since you brought it up, I could go with that.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 220 of 414 (774626)
12-20-2015 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by kbertsche
12-19-2015 10:06 PM


The evidence indicates that the supernatural does not, and further, cannot, exist in this universe. That is not the same as the "truth-claim" (no god exists) you keep insisting all atheists must believe. One is tentative. The other is absolute. I understand the theist mindset has difficulty with the nuance of these statements even when explained to them by atheists. I cannot help you further.
The only "truth-claim" most atheists make, regardless of what you want to hear or think you hear or what some dictionary with definitions woefully inadequate for the reality say, is this: Whether some god or gods exist or not they do not affect my existence and I follow no theist path.
Note the "most atheists" in that sentence.
I am not like most atheists. I am actively anti-theist. So, don't try to point up some self-conjured inconsistencies between what I said about most atheists and what I know about myself.
And, if it isn't too far a stretch for you, I can still claim that theists must be deluded, or ignorant, or evil, while maintaining that god(s) existence or not matters not one bit to me.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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