|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Does Atheism = No beliefs? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
deerbreh writes:
According to the all-powerful Yahoo! Answers:
Disbelief is a belief.quote:"I can't believe you said that!" is disbelief. In this particular example, you know it's true but you still "can't believe". Not believing in Odin is nonbelief. You can believe in Ganesh and non-believe in Odin at the same time. What you're describing is more like unbelief: Unbelievers believe that God un-exists. I personally don't believe that any gods exist but I don't self-identify as an atheist. I self-identify as an agnostic. I have no active unbelief. People who do self-identify as atheists may or may not be "sure". There's little to be gained by labelling people one way or the other.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
I have an active disbelief in your ability to make an intelligent comment.
Do you have an active disbelief in Father Christmas?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Everybody's agnostic, from the most rabid believer to the most rabid unbeliever.
That does not preclude you from also being agnostic, from the Greek agnost or agnotos - not knowing or incapable of being known.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
The point is that I DO have an active disbelief. You didn't comment on that.
You may well think that but would you understand if one came your way?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
You evangelicals are funny. ringo writes:
Tough, you are one. ... but I don't self-identify as an atheist. I don't self-identify as "tall". I don't self-identify as a shoe-wearer. I don't have to acknowledge every single fact.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
I self-identify as agnostic while you insist on labelling me as atheist. And whilst you claim not to have to self-identify, it was you that did. I don't self-identify as atheist because not everybody agrees with your definition of atheist. If I self-identified as atheist, too many people would assume that I believe no god exists. It's better communication. If I self-identify as agnostic, I only have a handful of True Unbelievers like you to deal with.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
It's not about "coming out". The religious people I know are equally horrified by agnosticism and by atheism. It's probably an American thing - this fear of coming out. It's about communication. If people think "atheist" means "believes there is no God" then identifying myself as an atheist gives them the wrong idea. I don't care what people think of me but I'd rather they form their opinions on accurate information. As for fear of coming out, some atheists seem to be afraid to admit that they don't know.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Nonsense. Insisting on one dictionary definition and ignoring all others is obfuscation. If you don't believe in god you're an atheist. That's the meat of the matter. The rest is obfuscation. If you want to play Dueling Dictionaries:
quote:I neither deny nor disbelieve. Therefore, it ain't me. Tangle writes:
Plain English usage is exactly the point here. Most people don't define "atheist" the way you religious atheists do.
Saying that your prime position is an agnostic but you don't believe in god has put the cart before the horse - and also makes no sense in plain English usage. Tangle writes:
I am using the term accurately. Sometimes more accuracy involves less precision.
Then you have no excuse for not using words and terms accurately.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Tangle writes:
And 93 would think it meant an active disbelief in God. The other two would be atheist missionaries like you.
If you asked 100 people what an atheist was, 95 would say it's someone who didn't believe in god. The other 5 wouldn't know the word.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
I had never even heard your usage before I came to EvC. The common usage is active disbelief in God. I'll take my own experience - and the dictionary definition that I quoted - over your "nuh-uh". The normal usage of the word atheist is a non-belief in god. The wishy-washy "lacking in belief" that you talk about is commonly known as agnosticism.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There is no camp that prefers not to believe. Do you personally feel as if evidence would persuade you or others or are you more of the camp that prefers not to believe for reasons other than evidence? As I have said before, I personally would like to believe but I can't. It would especially be a comfort to believe that some of the people who have died before me I'll see again. I wish I could believe that but I can't.
Phat writes:
I would prefer that no God or other alien warlord incinerate me. I have enough earthly enemies such as bacteria, etc.
There are some who would prefer that there be no God.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
So it isn't just a lack of response after all?
It's a response to the claim that gods exist.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Well, they say that baldness is just a lack of hair - not a hair colour. You don't go around telling people you're bald. ringo writes:
uh? So it isn't just a lack of response after all? So, if atheism is just a lack of belief - not an active disbelief - then you don't need to go around telling people you don't believe. There's no need for a "response" to belief at all.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes:
I'm just saying that no response is actually necessary.
I don't go around telling people that leprechauns don't exist.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Tangle writes:
So point out what's dumb about it. This is a discussion forum, not just an excuse for name-calling.
That's possibly one of the dumbest arguments for arguments sake that you've come out with yet and there's a lot of competition. Tangle writes:
Who said anything about believers? You insist that I am an atheist. You seem to want me on your side even though you think I'm dumb. You're an evangelical atheist.
Except that believers try to use their beliefs to make me do things I don't want to and I regard as daft and dangerous in accordance to their beliefs.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024