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Author Topic:   The Nicene Creed Scam
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 1 of 26 (775291)
12-30-2015 8:00 PM


This is who Jesus Christ himself is. Let’s start with the one thing that will define who God really is? What is eternal life? John 5:26bFor as the Father HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF; so has he given to the son TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF. The life Jesus referred to is eternal or everlasting life. 

By his declaration and definition, he declared that he himself did not have eternal life at the time he was walking the earth or he was a complete liar! If you truly believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then you have to believe that Jesus Christ spoke the truth. If so, from his own mouth, he declared that only God had eternal life. Christ himself only had the promise of eternal life! This scam is too long to post here.

God Settled the Issue of Sin

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 12-30-2015 11:57 PM Bob Bobber has replied
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 12:42 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 3 of 26 (775293)
12-30-2015 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
12-30-2015 11:11 PM


Re: Welcome To EvC
Those who believe Jesus was purely human tended to understand the Israelites history and they even accept him as a messiah, but that does not mean they think he was God. 

They know the monotheism of Israel does not and cannot evolve from polytheism, because the two are based on radically divergent world-views, radically divergent intuitions about reality.
The monotheism of Israel was not, it could not be the natural outgrowth of the polytheism of an earlier age, it was a radical break with it. 
Monotheism was a revolution, not an evolution.
I did write that blog, but I depend on that blog to answer questions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 12-30-2015 11:11 PM AdminPhat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-30-2015 11:46 PM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 4 of 26 (775294)
12-30-2015 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Bob Bobber
12-30-2015 11:31 PM


Re: Welcome To EvC
I can still answer questions without a link to that blog, but I will be presenting my case with that blog. If you don't mind me bring some of that blog to your forum? I have find in other debates I have going on, that people will not look at that blog anyways?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-30-2015 11:31 PM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 7 of 26 (775299)
12-31-2015 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
12-30-2015 11:57 PM


Re: Getting This Rolling.
Jesus was everything that the first Adam was before the fall. Being created in the image of God means that we must view ourselves as intrinsically valuable and richly invested with meaning, potentially and responsibilities. We are to be and to do on a finite scale, what God is and does on an infinite scale.
By virtue of being created in the image of God, human beings are capable of reflecting his character in their own life; animals possess none of these qualities. What distinguishes people from animals is the fact that human nature inherently has godlike possibilities.
Omniscience, omnipotence, or omnipresence, none of these other divine attributes have been ascribed to the human race as part of the image of God. We have been created to reflect God in our thinking and actions, but the physical sustained by God and dependent upon him for our existence in this world and in the world to come.
Developing a godly character in this present life, this will be our personal identity in the world to come. It is the character or personality that we have developed in this life, that God preserves in his memory.
Jesus was TO HAVE that life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 12-30-2015 11:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by kbertsche, posted 12-31-2015 12:38 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 10 of 26 (775303)
12-31-2015 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by kbertsche
12-31-2015 12:38 AM


Re: Getting This Rolling.
Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life.
That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden.
The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to the human race.
That life is no longer inaccessible. Remember Jesus was TO HAVE that life, the same life that tree of life produced?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by kbertsche, posted 12-31-2015 12:38 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 11 of 26 (775304)
12-31-2015 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 12:42 AM


Jesus did not have life in himself, so he could not be the source of that life; however, that being said, he was given the authority to give the promise to whomever he wished. He was not the source, but he was the only way to obtain the life from God himself. This is not semantics, the scriptures make it quite plain to anyone who reads it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 12:42 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 1:04 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 13 of 26 (775307)
12-31-2015 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 1:04 AM


What is eternal life for the Israelite? The monotheism of Israel was not, it could not be the natural outgrowth of the polytheism of an earlier age, it was a radical break with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 1:04 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 1:29 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 15 of 26 (775309)
12-31-2015 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 1:29 AM


Remember that the human race is cut off from that eternal life. So after Yahweh Gave up on the nations, Yahweh experiments with a single individual of believing; Abraham’s believing withstands many a trial. Yahweh is the owner of the land, Abraham was called to. Yahweh is empowered to set conditions or residency requirements for those who would reside in it, like a landlord. Yahweh is seeking replacement tenants who are going to follow the moral rules of residence that Yahweh has established for his land. 

Yahweh’s promise to Abraham is formalized in a ritual ceremony called a suzerainty covenant. The patriarchical covenant, which is a covenant in which a superior party, a suzerain dictates the terms of a political treaty usually, and an inferior party obeys them. The arrangement primarily serves the interest of the suzerain, and not the vassal or the subject. So Yahweh is making a land grant to a favored subject, and there’s an ancient ritual that ratifies the oath. In this kind of covenant, the parties to the oath would pass between the split carcass of a sacrificial animal, as if to say, that they agree they will suffer the same fate as this animal, if they violate the covenant. 

Abraham cuts sacrificial animals in two, and Yahweh, but only Yahweh, passes between the two halves. Only Yahweh seems to be obligated by the covenant, obligated to fulfill the promise that he’s made. Abraham doesn’t appear to have any obligation in return. In this case, it is the subject, Abraham, and not the suzerain, Yahweh, who is benefited by this covenant, and that’s a complete reversal of this ritual ceremony.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 1:29 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Admin, posted 12-31-2015 8:36 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 16 of 26 (775310)
12-31-2015 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 1:29 AM


Satan was very clever, if one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.
It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 1:29 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 2:13 AM Bob Bobber has replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 17 of 26 (775311)
12-31-2015 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 2:01 AM


My point is Dr Adequate, how can Yahweh make a covenant like that? To live forever in a land that is his? But the human race was cut off from that life that the tree of life produced?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 2:01 AM Bob Bobber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 2:28 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 18 of 26 (775312)
12-31-2015 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 2:13 AM


Before we get into another covenant Yahweh made, why do the follower of the Creed always use "I AM" when in the context of Exodus shows different? Exodus 3:13-14 - Moses said to God, When I come to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them? And God said to Moses, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh. He continued, Thus shall you say to the Israelites, ‘Ehyeh sent me to you.’ 

Not having been raised among his own people, Moses is ignorant of their God’s name and fears he will lack credibility with the Israelites. God’s proper name, disclosed in the verse 15, is YHVH (spelled yod-heh-vav-heh in Hebrew; in ancient times the vav was pronounced w). But here God first tells Moses its meaning: I Will Be What I Will Be, meaning My nature will become evident from my actions. 

Then God answers Moses’ question about what to say to the people: Tell them: ‘Ehyeh’ (I Will Be, a shorter form of the explanation) sent me. This explanation derives God’s name from the verb h-v-h, a variant form of h-y-h, to be. Because God is the speaker, he uses the first person form of the verb.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 2:13 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 20 of 26 (775316)
12-31-2015 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
12-31-2015 2:38 AM


Re: Getting This Rolling.
That is a offshoot of the Nicene Creed? I know this is fact, no longer does the human race have to strive to attain and maintain God’s acceptance on the basis of who they are and what they can do. Our decree of judicial perfection in the eyes of God comes not through Christ’s death for our sins, but through our union with Christ’s resurrection life. If a person believes Christ died for their sins, but does not believe that God’s justice was satisfied, when Christ died for those sins, that person has not believed Christ died for their sins. 

God purchased the human race out of sins dominion, never to be returned to the market place of sin again. By removing the sin issue from the table of God’s justice, God effectively canceled Satan’s ownership of all the human race. Satan can lay claim to no person based on that persons sinfulness. 

It was God’s plan before the creation of the world, that humankind’s fingerprints would not be found on humankind's salvation. Reconciliation has to do with God’s justice being satisfied for sins, and that means all of them and that means for all the world, reconciliation is a sin issue. Justification is something entirely different, it has to do with a judicial decree of the very righteousness of God himself freely attributed to the believer’s account. Not preaching, let's go back to Israel's history, that will show the scam of the Creeder's!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 12-31-2015 2:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 2954 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 25 of 26 (775336)
12-31-2015 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 12:42 AM


John 5:21 the word ‘quicken’ means ‘give life to’ which was then universally believed by the Israelites. The word ‘raise’ means awake or to rouse up from sleep which is talking about the resurrection. In the overall context here, Jesus was explaining that he was given the authority to give the promise of this eternal life to whomever he wished. He was not the source of that eternal life, but he was the only way to obtain the life from God himself. 

Israel, the people to whom the Gospel of the Kingdom was being proclaimed at the time of this context in John, could become a part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, meaning they would be granted entrance into that land they had been promised, that kingdom. Jesus was discussing how he is going to have access to that life that the tree of life produces? 

Remember how Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 12:42 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 03-13-2016 1:22 AM Bob Bobber has not replied

  
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