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Author | Topic: Addiction By Definition | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Cat Sci writes: Ive had ups and downs. No real track record of sobriety longer than 60-70 day runs. I am learning how to recognize the addictive voice....its amazing what one can talk themselves into...and also how primitive, stupid, and selfish the inner logic is. I'm glad you found something better. How's it coming along? As of this writing, I have about a solid month under my belt, and am again trying to go beyond the 60-72 day period that seems to be my limit so far. Its not the length of sobriety so much as it is the total number of days of sobriety overall versus the total number of relapsing(irresponsible,rebellious) days of addiction hat make up the big picture. Being honest with myself, I find that I am addicted to action and chaos versus responsibility and order. It also didn't help that during my last relapse I won $5000.00. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Recently I have been studying the work of Dr.Jeffrey Schwartz one of the world’s leading experts in neuroplasticity.
quote: Last year I studied some of Dr.Patrick Carnes, an addictions expert. Both of these men are leading researchers in the field of addiction and both basically agree on the behavior of the human brain during addiction and how the brain heals from addiction when it becomes an entrenched disorder. Dr.Carnes says that it takes the brain at least a year to heal, basing his conclusion upon the clinical analysis of hundreds of patients. Schwartz concurs, saying that a patient who seeks relief from obsessive/compulsive disorder can basically change their brain...but...(and this is a BIG but) it takes a lot of time, mindfulness,pain and active participation in retraining or rewiring the neural pathways. Schwartz has what he calls the Four Step Method.
Four Steps Explained Step 1: RelabelStep 2: Reattribute Step 3: Refocus Step 4: Revalue I am currently working on refocus and reattribution of the obsessions and compulsions. Many of you know of my struggles with addictive behaviors, and the evolution of my awareness in this field. Schwartz calls it a medical condition, and i am inclined to agree.(not blaming my problems on an external cause,however....my wanting to change is an all-important first step. Larni, have you used any of this in your clinical practice? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I worked with a young fellow who used to quit smoking every week - a day or so of abstention in every seven. Rational Recovery was my earlier study, and I grasped the concept of personal responsibility in the process. What I failed to understand, however, is what Jack Trimpe (Founder of RR) called the Beast nature of my limbic brain and the failure of my understanding the faulty mixed signals. RR made it sound so easy---just stop! I prefer fantasy over reality, however...and justified my preference by self invoking God to turn fantasy into reality. Earlier this year I won $5000.00 and found myself in hot water deeper than ever! I became worse. I refused to face the pain of reality and the hard work of actively changing my brains biological "character".
ringo writes: Yes and no. The research has quite clearly defined(through brain imaging) that the OCD is a medical condition. The problem is that I cant blame satan nor ask God to fix this condition for me. The responsibility lies with the patient. What about the need to blame somebody besides ourselves? Would that be an addiction too? There are definite stages to the recovery process. One patients definition is this:
quote: Note how long it took for the full healing process to take place. Carnes states that the brain begins to reset itself after 150 days. Schwartz calls it neoplasticity yet does not mention a specific time frame. My best guess is that the brain changes between the 5th and the 18th months. I have never been able to remain sober from my addiction longer than 60+ days. Carnes says that it takes six months to even heal enough to bring back the negative feelings that lie repressed. Edited by Phat, : edit Edited by Phat, : clarification Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The point is that you can understand what appeals you.(or to you) Knowledge is power.
At this point I am no expert. God grant me the strength to face the necessary pain that precludes healing. All bets are off on whether or not I will succeed. I used to believe that one needed to hate their sin (addiction) before being able to master it. Currently I am of the opinion that it is quite all right to acknowledge that I really like my addiction. Or at least I think I do. The brain may, however, be sending false signals.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I'll explain this better as I progress in my own recovery. It is one thing to be able to explain a process and theory logically--anyone can read the research of others. It is only after having tested their theory--personally---that one can truly explain it.
One question: How do you personally know the difference between your understandings? Can you identify a distinct difference in how you feel about each one, and do you intuitively know which understanding is the better of the two?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The brain is sending conflicting signals. How do we choose which are "false"? For me, it all boils down to what I want out of life. Who was it who wisely said "all things in moderation"? Some things can be safely done in moderation--such as eating chocolate cake.Some of us can have just one or two drinks--no problem. Others start drinking, knowing that they will stop when the bar closes. The Rational Recovery folks say that there is an addictive voice within all of us. The only time that a conflict really occurs is when we want to stop--or slow down--and find ourselves actually unable to do so. As long as we allow our inner Beast everything it craves, nothing will ever change. So then the question---how do you know which inner voice is the Beast and which is your conscience? Several keys:
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The consensus among scientists now is that OCD is a medical disorder rather than simply an impulse control disorder.
Once the characteristics of this beast are relabeled and re attributed to a broken feedback loop in the brain, work can begin on refocus and revalue. It takes patience and tenacity. First and foremost, however, is a willingness to let go and use logic and reason. Experts say that the healing really starts after 150 days sobriety. i have never made it past 72 days in my life. Mentally and logically, I see the big picture. Emotionally, however, i am taking baby steps.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It's a medical disorder, so we use logic and reason to cure it? The Four Step Program can be used with or without a therapist and evidence shows that by understanding what is happening medically, one can literally change their brain biochemically over time. There are MRI images that confirmed this. We can (hypothetically) use logic and reason to control our behavior in spite of the medical disorder - but that doesn't seem to be working reliably. Before, when I merely relabeled the dysfunction as "The Beast" it was never enough for me---perhaps because it never made logical sense. I knew that the beast arose from the Limbic Brain but I never was able to vilify my own beast enough. Understanding that it is a medical condition basically gives me no excuses---apart from suicidal tendencies--to keep being obsessive and compulsive. One key is what jar used to always say to me---that I preferred fantasy over reality. I have met the enemy and he is I. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Having nearly finished the book,I have grasped the essence of what Schwartz is teaching. Several key points:
I know this sounds obvious but.... Its working for me, at any rate. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: The latest research proves that the brain changes and adapts itself to the addiction. This is known as neuro-plasticity. So the distinction is between addiction and need. An addiction is a counterfeit "need". Also, Ringo:
Phat in 2014 writes:
I need your prayers and advice. On my end of the deal, I will try and do my best. This is officially day 4 of sobrietyringo writes:
Everything we do in one area deprives another area.2014 Phat writes:
IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved.Ringo writes:
Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channeled in another direction?2014 Phat writes: And here it is September of 2016, almost two years after that conversation. Today is September 12,2016---Day # 57 of sobriety. The longest I have been able to be sober in 20 years has been 72 days. I have done some research on your question, and am eager to resume our conversation. Lets do some research on this one. Assuming EvC (and us) are still here in six months, let me get back to you on this one. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Cat Sci in 2015 writes: Seems as if every year i manage to read a new book and get in a couple of 30-50 day runs at sobriety! I'm glad you found something better. How's it coming along?
This years book is called Healing The Addicted Brain. What specifically I've learned that I didnt know before is how the healing process works-namely the patient must feel safe before the brain will resort back to its natural state.I also found out that there are definite medical reasons why a person wont listen to common sense early in recovery and why traditional programs don't work. Again...it takes 40 days for the brain to stop seething. Another 90 days for the brain to reset itself if the patient feels safe. At this point (130-150 days) major feelings come from subconscious to conscious level and must be addressed therapeutically. After that it takes 5-12 months to deal with family and relational issues. I promised to keep sober with all of you and report the effects two years ago, but it took this long to get up to day 57. Lets resume...and I'll honestly report my progress. Edited by Phat, : addedChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat, 2014 writes: IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved. Ringo writes: ...Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channelled in another direction? Lets pick up where we left off two years ago. I have learned a few more things since then and am as of today sober from gambling for 71 days. So to answer your question, yes. behavior quite typically jumps from the primary addiction to another potential or actual addictive habit. Science has shown that an addiction can be defined through MRI scans comparing a "normal" brain to that of a proven addict. Research has shown that most addictions follow the same basic brain pattern. Some of the characteristics include the frontal lobe heating up and showing a higher temperature. Behavior changes. Research has shown that an addict apparantly selectively blocks out sound advice and amplifies destructive advice. Imagine two voices from those around you. One voice says "You should get help. You are hurting yourself. Here is the science." The voice has an amplification recognition of 2 out of 10. Another voice says "Hey lets go have a drink. Lets party!"That voice is measured at an internal amplification of 9 or 10 out of 10. Research shows that the brain will heal enough to listen but that it takes 21-40 days. This is why the recidivism is so high. talk therapy (12 step groups or counsel) is ineffective until some sobriety is achieved. Book junkie that I am, I bought yet another book which I will use. Memoirs Of An ADDICTED BRAIN by Marc Lewis. Here is an overview:
quote: Of course I can read all of the books in the library on the subject and still never understand it without undergoing a healing journey myself. This topic and my other one on the 12 steps both document my previous attempts and my failure to reach the level of sobriety needed. My hope and prayer is that this time--in 2016--i can achieve my goal and report my experience back to all of you. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Day 80! I am excited!! 50 more days to get to Ground Zero and face the pain
I might add that other addictions are coming up now and I am addressing them also. The healing shall happen this time! Stay tuned.... Estimated Day 130: Thanksgiving, November 24th. Estimated healing period: 3 months to a yearChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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ringo writes: Q: Do you suffer from addiction?
A: No. I enjoy it. I made it to Day 85! And to be honest I am scared to death of a relapse. Experience has shown me that it never ends well. So did I enjoy my addiction, in retrospect? Im not fully in touch with those feelings yet. Stay tuned... Im starting to feel some deep emotions that I cant quite manage...such as fear of being alone, fear of loss (of sanity, perhaps?)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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this is where group therapy helps, by seeing and helping others in similar circumstances so you are not alone and not losing touch. I am involved in group therapy as well as working with a licensed addictions counselor. I am determined to do my part in the healing process. Day 86 as I type this. Estimated beginning of intense reboot (neuroplasticity) Day 130-approx. Thanksgiving. Estimated length of healing process: Unknown. The brain will only change when "it" feels safe. Right now I am unemployed and looking for work so Im unsure how safe I really feel. My counselor mentioned that a trait that is unique to gamblers over other addictions is a vague sense of entitlement. As has been pointed out to me before here at EvC, I DO in fact exhibit such a trait. In fact, I'm praying to get my old job back. The Union is awaiting a Step Two meeting to attempt to do just that. I am honest enough to realize, however, that I may not get what I want. Stay tuned...Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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