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Author | Topic: The Bundys and the Armed Occupation of a National Wildlife Refuge | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
The standoff at Malheur has lasted for 10 days or so, with no sign of ending soon.
It deserves its own thread separate from the Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread This article give some more background on what is driving the Bundys and how it directly affects the people who have chosen to spend their lives studying ecosystems in the western states and the organisms that live there.
In the Oregon Standoff, Science is a HostageWhat if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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But as she notes, this has been going on for many years--more than 20 for Cliven Bundy, without consequence for him. The armed occupation is an escalation and has already provoked increased harassment of scientists and federal employees in the area. I don't know who has jurisdiction in the cases involving the Bundys, but I would think that the U.S. Department of Justice, the Attorney General and federal prosecutors should have plenty of evidence to haul all the Bundys and their co-conspirators into federal court and put them on trial. Is it fear or a lack of will that lets these dimwits break law after law? These are exactly the people who should not be allowed to touch any weapons or firearms. They are a parody of a militia.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
It looks to me as if law enforcement and any federal authorities that might be on the scene have completely lost control, if they ever had it. It seems like the risk of bloodshed is increasing as more nutjobs keep showing up.
Self-appointed 'judge' arrives in Burns to ask local residents to charge government officials with crimesWhat if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy |
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Since the crimes are Federal, it seems the Federal government has some reasonable recourse that does not involve violence. The Federal courts can initiate asset seizure, all the cattle, any bank accounts, any property, vehicles, anything that moves or can be portable. Maybe with this bunch of nutters gathered here in Oregon, it is the perfect time to arrest Cliven and seize his assets in Nevada and also the Bubba boy's stuff down in Arizona. It sure is beginning to look to me like governmental authorities at all levels are completely baffled in how to deal with this. They seem to think that nothing can be done without it leading violence before it's resolved, so they are paralyzed and can't do anything. Right now the boundary around the zone of repugnance (I mean occupation) is completely porous with people coming and going all day long. The Bubbas need to be isolated and arrested one by one when they come out when they get hungry. I wonder if dear old Daddy Bubba every leaves the Nevada ranch? They should be watching him and grab him when he comes out. They got Bin Laden and sooner or later they have to face up to it and take away these guys freedom and toys.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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A friend just told me that dildos are being mailed to the Bundy Bubbas. I can just imagine the joy and gayety around the campfire tonight.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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I'm not going to post links since they are so available There is a lot out there (it's the internet), but some things are too good to pass up.
Rancher: 'I didn't know anything' about Bundy entering property, destroying fence quote:. Builder of website about Malheur occupation says '#Pray4ISIS' social media posts were just rants quote: Strange bedfellows......What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
This article is chilling. It is starting to feel like this is just one part of much larger, well-planned operation to steal public lands all over the western states.
How Refuge Occupation Could Fuel Land Privatization MovementWhat if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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I followed a sidebar link on that page, Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone, to an article from Oregon Public Broadcasting. I'm still trying to work through all the points there, with some difficulty because it mixes numbers with general assertions, but many of the numbers there seem to contradict their headline. The irony is that the ranchers have been getting a fantastic deal for more than a century. Extremely cheap grazing fees plus the feds do all the work as far as restoration of damage caused by grazing and control of invasive weeds. I found this to be a very informative commentary about what these guys are after. The Bundys Have A Vision For The West, and You Aren't Included quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: So we can assume that the Bubbas will still have their hands out for public subsidies after they steal public lands. Considering the lack of response to the occupation by the DOJ so far, they might just get away with it.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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I seem to be spending more time than I really want, looking for stories and opinions opposed to the criminals mounting an armed occupation on public land in SE Oregon.
Tobias Coughlin-Bogue writes about another point of view on the issues involving Malheur.
My Dad Worked at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, and He Knows What Happens When Ranchers Get Their Way (emphasis mine)
quote: quote: quote: quote: I find myself remembering many great experiences at Malheur. In 1974, I attended a 3-week nature photography course at the Malheur Environmental Field Station. The course was limited to 15 students and we had incredible access to some of the best wildlife, scenery, cultural, and historical areas on and around the refuge. Prior to that time and for many years after, my father and I spent long weekends every spring doing nature photography on the refuge and the surrounding areas. I like to visit during all the seasons most years. The Malheur Environmental Field Station was run by Denzel Ferguson while I was there. Denzel Ferguson spent a quarter-century fighting to protect public lands from ranchers who thought they had a right to use them however they pleased. Ferguson wrote several books, Sacred Cows at the Public Trough, 1983 and Oregon's Great Basin Country, 1979. The field station had 2 black and white darkrooms that were in use by the class at night. It was 3 weeks of the most intense focus on photography in my life, up until that time. The course was taught by a retired zoology prof from Oregon State University and could be taken for college credit. I was the oldest student by several years. There was one student who was in high school and the rest were in college. There were a couple dozen classes going on at the same time. Ornithology, Herpetology, Mammalogy, Archeology, Vascular Plants of the Steens, and many more were all packed with enthusiastic students. I learned so much. Richard Nixon resigned while I was there. What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Brilliant idea:
Oregon brothers launch anti-Bundy fundraising campaignWhat if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy |
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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The bubbas claim to have deep pockets supporting them. Hopefully, they are keeping accurate accounts for tax purposes. The real danger from a public standpoint would be legislative changes by a Republican-controlled Congress and Whitehouse, putting public land in private hands. Oregon standoff leader warns feds: Back off
I find myself wondering why the Bubbas were not arrested at this public meeting in the high school gym? I assume they were not armed in the meeting, but then again, these are extremist gun nuts. Oregon standoff: Anger, frustration boil over at community meeting Some history of some of the big ranches in the region. Timber Oligarchs Transform Into Beef Barons in Harney County and the Oregon High Desert Why the Bubbas shouldn't be considered terrorist, or maybe they should. It’s definitely not terrorists at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, don’t worry! A quote from the Malheur NWR Facebook page quote: A lot is being written about the standoff but not much in so-called mainstream media. Rallies around the state dreww pretty large crowds yesterday despite crappy weather.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy |
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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The Feds have let this get completely out of hand. Oregon governor calls on Feds to act, says 'this spectacle of lawlessness must end'
It is time to cut the power, blockade the roads, and move in and arrest everyone of these criminals. At the refuge, it's time to pull the plug: Editorial Now more of these nuts have turned up. ‘God wants us here’: More militiamen arrive at Malheur This is turning into a total Cluster F**K. The chances of this ending without bloodshed are almost zero.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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The state has no authority/standing to perform police actions on federal lands. The refuge is not a part of Oregon. This is incorrect. The refuge is in Oregon and crimes committed there are investigated by the state police or the county sheriff. Federal law enforcement is pretty sparse in Oregon except in metropolitan areas. Since federal property is the focus of the crime the FBI would have jurisdiction, but if they won't act the governor should be able to act.
I'm of two minds here. The dove in me says violence is never the answer, especially when the death toll has the potential to be dozens of fellow American lives no matter how twisted their political bent. Wait them out. There may yet be a non-violent solution in the future. Whether the authorities wait them out or storm them, they first need to isolate them and stop this fucking bullshit of letting them come and go and more assholes showing up and joining them. By now they probably have generators, so cutting the power has less effect. This all should have been taken care of in the first couple days. Infiltrators should have gone in at night and slashed all the tires on their vehicles and sugared their gas tanks. The authorities have looked like idiots through this and we can only hope that the new guys showing up are actually federal undercover agents or this is going to be one of the biggest law enforcement screwups of all time. If a shootout actually starts the refuge headquarters makes a pretty good fort, being built of heavy thick stone. It would be a scientific tragedy of the museum is damaged or destroyed.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Letting them have press conferences and attend meetings is not working. Plus their cronies are harassing the families of law enforcement and federal workers. These un-American thugs are an embarrassment to us all.
Letter from Governor Kate Brown to the U.S. Dept. of Justice.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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I tried to sign the Whitehouse petition twice. It said I needed to confirm it on an email, but no email came.
The FBI looks totally incompetent today when they had the perfect opportunity to take Bundy into custody. FBI and Oregon standoff leaders begin negotiations to end refuge occupation ABE: I used a different email address and the petition worked. Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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