This is turning into a total Cluster F**K. The chances of this ending without bloodshed are almost zero.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
This is turning into a total Cluster F**K. The chances of this ending without bloodshed are almost zero.
I think that may be true. They got their community meeting, where they heard chants to go! go! go! Alpha Bundy repeated his insistence on staying until the Hammonds were released and federal lands surrendered.
At long last, having made a mental note a dozen times, I googled 'Hammond arson trial'. I recommend it. Not only were the Hammonds serial arsonists, the feds reacted to their first (of at least three) arson with only a warning.
The Hammonds claim they started one of the prosecuted fires to clear invasive species, and the other as a back-burn to stop a fire on federal lands from reaching their winter feed. They also endangered a working fire-fighting crew on a butte above them with the latter and concealed evidence of deer poaching with the former. They fired at hunters on public lands.
They instructed a young nephew to start one fire; he had to shelter in a creek to survive it. He was also later subjected to abuse: forced to eat two cans of chewing tobacco and then hike 10 miles; subjected to crude dermabrasionof his chest with coarse sandpaper because the family disliked the initials he carved there with a safety pin.
The sanding took about five minutes. The family won't tell who did the sanding: 'It was a family decision. He agreed to it.' He testified against the two Hammonds now in jail. "Light the whole county on fire!" he said he was told.
There's more, a lot more.
A lot of this stuff is glossed over in coverage of the occupation. It's revealing to learn what kind of jamokes they're threatening bloodshed to free.
"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto. -Terence
The Feds have let this get completely out of hand. Oregon governor calls on Feds to act, says 'this spectacle of lawlessness must end'
Last time I looked, governors had the authority to call on the national guard in their state to quell insurrection. that's what happened in New Mexico during the Santa Fe Pen riot.
Have things changed so much this is no longer true? If the Feds refuse to act, then why should the state also refuse when they are within their rights? Political cowardice?
The State of Oregon has the power to seal off these fools from all electricity, supplies, and contact with the civilized world? Why do they refuse to act?
This situation reminds me of the narrative Shirer used in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. The Wiemar Republic persecuted left-wing violence to the limit of the law and beyond while only lightly treating right-wing violence of the same nature, if at all.
Have some guts, damn federal and state cowards, and do your duty as per your oath of office.
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon
Have things changed so much this is no longer true? If the Feds refuse to act, then why should the state also refuse when they are within their rights?
The state has no authority/standing to perform police actions on federal lands. The refuge is not a part of Oregon.
[edit]
I'm of two minds here. The dove in me says violence is never the answer, especially when the death toll has the potential to be dozens of fellow american lives no matter how twisted their political bent. Wait them out. There may yet be a non-violent solution in the future.
The hawk in me says we should storm the area with helicopter gun-ships and tanks crushing the Y'all Qaeda terrorists little heads under the tracks of our APCs.
Then, again, if we wait a bit more, more "patriots" will gravitate to the Hummer Humpers and we can crush more of them all at once when we unleash the dogs.
A lesson in American society: Hear the drum beat of war swell in our society. See how easily we pull the gun and resort to blood.
Re: How to crack these neanderthals in a nutshell...
Omnivorous writes:
Guns N' Roses suck, but The Clash and Tull were too good for Noriega. Still, it seemed to work, though the Holy See was not amused.
Considering we are likely dealing with Hank Williams and Buck Owens fans, I figure King Crimson and Ozric Tentacles might be appropriate, but while that 'too many notes thing' could work, that is likely too melodic. Skrillix and even worse dubstep is also a possibility, along with previously suggested rap and house music, and then of course we always have Thinking Plague.
But then the obvious suddenly hit:
Eat that 24/7 at 150 decibels, the rest of their catalog is even more obnoxiously creative and can be used as well.
Gotta love em' when appropriate.
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon
The state has no authority/standing to perform police actions on federal lands. The refuge is not a part of Oregon.
True but...
Are all the roads that enter this federal land also federal property? I see no Interstate or even national highway according to Google maps.
A firm stand by the state could force the federal hand. Sorry, I see political cowardice in the face of right-wing terrorism a major flaw at both the federal and state level.
Cop out, plain and simple. How long would this last if Black Lives Matter had taken over the refuge?
Edited by anglagard, : add original statement
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon
The state has no authority/standing to perform police actions on federal lands. The refuge is not a part of Oregon.
This is incorrect. The refuge is in Oregon and crimes committed there are investigated by the state police or the county sheriff. Federal law enforcement is pretty sparse in Oregon except in metropolitan areas. Since federal property is the focus of the crime the FBI would have jurisdiction, but if they won't act the governor should be able to act.
I'm of two minds here. The dove in me says violence is never the answer, especially when the death toll has the potential to be dozens of fellow American lives no matter how twisted their political bent. Wait them out. There may yet be a non-violent solution in the future.
Whether the authorities wait them out or storm them, they first need to isolate them and stop this fucking bullshit of letting them come and go and more assholes showing up and joining them.
By now they probably have generators, so cutting the power has less effect. This all should have been taken care of in the first couple days. Infiltrators should have gone in at night and slashed all the tires on their vehicles and sugared their gas tanks.
The authorities have looked like idiots through this and we can only hope that the new guys showing up are actually federal undercover agents or this is going to be one of the biggest law enforcement screwups of all time.
If a shootout actually starts the refuge headquarters makes a pretty good fort, being built of heavy thick stone. It would be a scientific tragedy of the museum is damaged or destroyed.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
Since federal property is the focus of the crime the FBI would have jurisdiction, but if they won't act the governor should be able to act.
I think you'll find that on a day-to-day basis, allowing local police authorities to handle investigating criminal activity on federal lands, is an expedient and agreed to use of police powers already in place to act on behalf of federal authority. The state still has no right to act in any matter like this occupation on its own volition.
Without federal authority the governor cannot call out the National Guard and storm the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.
As for the rest of your well versed frustrated rant ... I agree.
Then, again, if we wait a bit more, more "patriots" will gravitate to the Hummer Humpers and we can crush more of them all at once when we unleash the dogs.
While I figure the FBI already has these people on a watch list (or should), this may be a way to see who shows up, any new faces, etc.
I do think access OUT should be blocked, but let as many nuts inside as want to go, arrest anyone who comes out.
Letting them have press conferences and attend meetings is not working.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
quote:We petition the obama administration to: Arrest Ammon Bundy and the armed occupiers of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.
President Obama,
We respectfully request that you end the armed occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge immediately. At the very least, you owe the American people an explanation as to why the area has not been isolated. Members of their organization can come and go as they please, members of the community can visit the occupied facility, and other right-wing extremist groups such as the Idaho III% can show their support.
Law enforcement inaction up to this point is an egregious violation of public safety and emboldens their erroneous assertions that the US Government has no Constitutional Authority.
Please end the siege of the refuge and arraign Ammon Bundy as soon as possible.
The petition is ~1/8 of the way to enough signatures, but it HAS doubled since I signed: more people need to know about it -- you can spread the information on your facebook or twitter accounts.
Note that this started in Oregon and has a lot of support from our western citizens.
ABE: I used a different email address and the petition worked.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
™ Version 4.2
(1)