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Author | Topic: 2014 was hotter than 1998. 2015 data in yet? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
... to accomplish the same thing. But will it? Where's your evidence that it will? It's what I've been asking about for most of this thread and asked about for a good portion of the thread on fusion. Do you know how many serious replies I got? How many attempts to present the math? How many folks stepped up to demonstrate the real-world feasibility of renewables to replace fossil fuels? Exactly zero. Maybe you care to change that? Or maybe you just care to bitch and proselytize?Love your enemies!
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
Exactly what is irrational about fearing that we might continue as we are right now?
I for one think that (for now) nuclear is absolutely essential. But there is no reason to make it the only solution.
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
That's not what I was referring to as an "irrational fear". For a hint see the subtitle of this post, your post, and the one you replied to. For me, an irrational fear is one that is not based known mechanisms. I guess we just differ on what is and isn't irrational.
Indeed. It's just unfortunate no one here is advocating such real alternatives to fossil fuels. Indeed, it is. At times, it is hard to separate the movement to replace fossil fuels from the Green movement which fights to stop nuclear power. It seems to be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Well. France's production is below the U.S. That's the thing with looking at small countries - it's easy to distort the reality of the situation with large percentages of rather small wholes. It is a step though. France's production as a percentage of total power output is well above the US. About 75% of France's electrical power comes from nuclear. "In 2004, fission energy made up the largest share of France's energy consumption at 39%. Looking purely at electricity, though, 407 TWh (75%) out of the country's total production of 541 TWh of electricity was from fission-electric power stations, the highest percentage in the world."Nuclear power in France - Wikipedia I see no reason why this wouldn't scale with population.
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Jon Inactive Member |
A fear is irrational if the things feared are unlikely.
We know the mechanisms that create killer clowns. Yet we also recognize a fear of clowns to be irrational.
France's production as a percentage of total power output is well above the US. Like I said, the problem with percentages and all... Whether it's scalable or not I don't know. I also don't know if we'd just find somewhere else to burn all the coal if we stopped sticking it in power plants. History tells me we probably would...Love your enemies!
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: I linked to a Stanford study of just such a plan offered in New York. (it didn't require automobiles to be electric though) The technology is there. Common sense suggests that solar can be scaled above what is the present deployment. This is an easy quantification and it isn't "quantum physics" lol.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The technology is there. Common sense suggests that solar can be scaled above what is the present deployment. One of the problems I find with talking about "scalability" is that we are comparing a ~10 year old industry (since solar became sufficiently cost effective) to a ~200 year old industry. A better comparison is with coal and oil in their first 10 years of use, and whether solar can provide that level of service. It can and more. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Jon Inactive Member |
If you're talking about the report I think you're talking about, then you still haven't produced anything.
Where's the numbers? Where's the data? How about you try again? Give us the link. Describe what it is. Quote some relevant portions. Show how they support your position. Love your enemies!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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In certain parts of the country they may. In states where there is little state support the costs are not so easily absorbed. ... When I run the numbers without state support it is still worth my investment. But I look at the cost as an investment where the return is a dividend I can spend -- it's part of my retirement "portfolio" to provide a steady income from my investments, and I am getting a higher rate of return from solar than from other investments (up to 6% in today's market for stable less risky investments).
... There is no way I can borrow 30k for an installation ... That sounds like a large investment. We ran the numbers for my Dad's all electric house in Woods Hole MA, where the winter bills were over $1,000.00 and the installation there was $30,000.00 and it still came out ahead. That installation was huge. (I have details if you are interested). Again, I "borrowed" from my retirement funds to create a steady income (converting all my retirement investments from growth to income now that I am retired).
... and have a payment that is less than what I save from my electric bill. ... What's your interest rate? What do the installation companies offer there?
... I have run the #'s many ways, it just does not make financial sense in northern Wisconsin. Even if I paid cash for the system my return is not high enough to justify the expense. Another option is DYI by starting small and adding to the system over time. I started with a small $35 panel that I use to power a 12 vdc bilge pump in my sump -- we have a high water table and a full basement, the sump is running constantly, so doing this paid for itself rather quickly. I keep the old AC pump as backup. I also replaced all light bulbs with LEDs. My gas and electric bills were in the low end of neighborhood use (combined utility company periodically issues reports of how you compare), so my usage was down. If nothing else, costs are coming down, so keep an eye on it. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
RAZD writes:
My issue is with people who just say, "It's scalable," without demonstrating that it is. I accept that solar could be a significant contributor to NYC's energy needs/usage but I can't help but think it's being oversold.
One thing that I see going on is that these alternative energy sources are transforming the way we think about energy distribution, looking for aesthetic solutions not just a bunch of towers and electrical lines.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
A fear is irrational if the things feared are unlikely. But are they unlikely? Let me present you once again with a question that a wise man once asked:
How much FF would we have to burn (and how fast) to melt all the ice? If you don't know, if you don't have exact figures, then how can you imply that we should take no action? C'mon, let's see your precise data, let's see your unquestionably correct climate models.
Where's the numbers? Where's the data? Good question. Produce the numbers and the data. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
Ringo writes:
My issue is with people who just say, "It's scalable," without demonstrating that it is. I guess I must be ignorant. What the hell is "scalable"?The quick hipshot answer is easy: Just make more panels. Maybe the problematic word should be "storage"???- xongsmith, 5.7d
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
xongsmith writes:
Which is why I asked about Manhattan. How do you scale up from six panels on one hippy-dippy house to x panels in a city of ten million?
I guess I must be ignorant. What the hell is "scalable"?The quick hipshot answer is easy: Just make more panels. xongsmith writes:
And how big would the battery be to prepare for a rainy day?
Maybe the problematic word should be "storage"???
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Jon Inactive Member |
But are they unlikely? Yes.
... how can you imply that we should take no action? Where have I either said or implied that we should "take no action"?
Produce the numbers and the data. You mean do the research for someone else's argument? No thanks.Love your enemies!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
SOLARCITY CREATES $160 MILLION FINANCING FACILITY FOR RESIDENTIAL SOLAR PROJECTS
quote: Something to look into? enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Yes. Where's the numbers? Where's the data?
Where have I either said or implied that we should "take no action"? In your posts. If you did not mean to imply that, do please tell us what action you think should be taken.
You mean do the research for someone else's argument? No, for yours.
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