2014 was hotter than 1998. 2015 data in yet?

see Message 171How long did it take to build the electrical grid for fossil fuels.When people started playing with electricity with kites and leyden jars, did they question if it could be scalable?If you want an idea of the projects going on around the world see
https://solarthermalmagazine.com
(They are on facebook too)Enjoy

Solar and wind are already about 5% of total energy on the grid. (and about 50% of new additions)That is despite the pathetic level of funding for renewables and the massive head start coal, oil, and gas have had.Anybody who thinks that solar and wind can't be 100% is delusional.And both are getting cheaper, much cheaper in the case of solar.If petroleum is so great then why are electric cars cheaper to fuel? Tesla just released an electric car for $80,000 but there is a $9,000 savings in average energy costs over 5 years (and $18,000 over 10 years I suppose).btw, Jon.Have you gotten back from your car yet? You said wind and solar were less than 50% of new generation capacity added in 2015.I want to see your numbers backing up your claim.

None of the major players in the solar industry, including SolarCity, are available in WI. The way our state is run it will be a long time before any major solar company comes to this state. I have a niece that is in the solar business on the east coast, she told me that they are not seeing any reason to even consider WI because of the political climate here toward solar.
I have had 2 quotes, both came in at about 30K after tax credit. I use approx $1800 in electricity a year. That means there is a 20 year payoff. As an investment choice it is not a good one. I am making 5-6% consistently on investments. Why would I want to divert the 30k, have it tied up, and wait 20 years to have my principal back?
If I did this I would pay cash, but the numbers do not make sense for me. They certainly would make no sense for anyone that was going to borrow money to do it.

They had time. They could afford to go down a few blind alleys.We're being sold solar energy by companies that stand to make a lot of money whether it's a blind alley or not. They are certainly not motivated to tell the truth about scalability.

So answer the question: Can solar and wind power new York City?

That was my mistake. I missed that you were talking about capacity. I'm not interested in talking about capacity. I'm interested in talking about electricity actually generated because that's what matters. More laughs.The sun doesn't shine at night. So take a guess at what's actually charging all those electric cars while their drivers sleep.

Well in countries with sensible energy production they get their power from non fossil fuel sources even when the sun is not shining

Ringo responds: Assuming the hippy-dippy house is a family of 4, (6/4)x10,000,000 = 15 million panels. Now cheaper per panel because of the economy of size.How many automobiles (much harder to make per unit than a solar panel) are there in Manhattan? One source I got was "According to the data, only 1.4 million households in the City out of the total 3.0 million owned a car." So now we need to show that owning some 11 panels each is more expensive than buying a car, over the service lifetime of these items. ??? What is the problem?The buildings need only do themselves, not other buildings. How many solar windows per typical building? What is the power consumption of a typical building? Do it building by building. Make it optional. each panel array would have it's own battery/capacitor storage. It would foolish to put it all in one place (like for example, Battery Park - a target of rising sea levels). Have each building's 13th floor decked out with Elon Musk's wall units.

No they don't.Every modern society generates the majority of its energy from fossil fuels.

I think what ringo - and definitely myself - is looking for is a plan.How much electricity does NYC use? (This will require you to use words like watts and watthours in your reply.)How much electricity can you reliably get from a solar panel in NYC - on good days and bad?How big are the solar panels? How big is NYC? (This requires words like square feet or meters.)How much storage capacity will you need and how much space will it require?What backup capacity will you need and what type will it be?Are any additions needed to the current delivery system and how will delivery and distance from the source of generation impact the other factors?Let's start here with the basic physics of it all. We can move on to costs next...

How can that be? You said the 216 foot scenario was irrational, unlikely etc. But if we generate the majority of our energy from fossil fuels then the 216 feet are a certainty.

Are you trolling or stupid?You really should learn about something before you disparage it. Here are some things you should research.
Emissions produced by individual cars compared to emissions from the production of electricity that is used for electric cars. Which scenario is better for the environment?Also, you do realize that there are storage technologies available for power produced by wind and solar don't you? The electricity for electric cars is not produced locally for the most part.You really should do some research.

Have you felt the brutal winds off the ocean in Manhattan?In winter time, they are painful.Solar power plants do take up 10 times the space as coal-fired power plants (though the mining of coal and the space that takes more than matches the size of solar plants), so one can argue that places with limited land might be an issue.I need to find numbers for what the percentage totals coal, gas, and oil are used as part of the grid. I want to see what fraction they are.I'll start with the national numbers.I'll be back.EDIT

quote:

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In 2014, the United States generated about 4,093 billion kilowatthours of electricity.1 About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum).

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Major energy sources and percent share of total U.S. electricity generation in 2014:
Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7% Biomass = 1.7%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.4%
Wind = 4.4%

​

Petroleum = 1%
Other gases < 1%

​

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

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In 2014, it was 67% (fossil fuels and coal) to 5% (wind solar), but I imagine it is more like 66% to 6% today. Taking just these 2 (fossil fuels/coal verses wind/solar) wind/solar is about 10% of the 2016 total it would seem.Very large wind turbines off the shore are cost competitive and don't take up space on land.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

That's nice. I'm still right, though. The power behind electric cars is almost all FF.It's not the carbon-free dream folks like LNA are peddling it as. Not really. If there were, folks in Columbia, MD, would simply store all the wind and solar power they are producing and use it as needed instead of selling it off when they make extra and relying on FF-derived grid power when the winds ain't blowing and the sun ain't shining.

How do you know?You can't even tell me how much FF we'd have to burn to get to the 216 feet.