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Author | Topic: People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bob bobber writes:
If you get that from the Bible, cite book, chapter and verse.
Once Lucifer took over the earth while it was in the first heaven, El was forced to light the earth while Lucifer and his clan did whatever they wanted. Forced in that sense?
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
Jesus said that Satan was a murder from the beginning. Beginning of what, he murdered the people on the earth while it was in the first heaven.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bob Bobber writes:
I asked you to cite book, chapter and verse, as in John 8:44.
Jesus said that Satan was a murder from the beginning. Bob Bobber writes:
Cite book, chapter and verse for that.
Beginning of what, he murdered the people on the earth while it was in the first heaven.
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
Don't have a Bible with me. But that looks like the verse. Who was Satan's first murder victims?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bob Bobber writes:
Neither do I. I Googled it.
Don't have a Bible with me. But that looks like the verse. Bob Bobber writes:
It doesn't say. That doesn't give you license to make things up.
Who was Satan's first murder victims?
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
Not made up, it is there. Lucifer took over that earth while it was in the first heaven and he flooded it, murdering everything alive on it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bob Bobber writes:
I keep asking you, WHERE is it? Book, chapter and verse.
Not made up, it is there. Bob Bobber writes:
There is nothing remotely resembling that in the Bible.
Lucifer took over that earth while it was in the first heaven and he flooded it, murdering everything alive on it.
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
Gen. 1:1, the earth became without form and void. Do a word study on 'without form' and 'void'. Something was going on that earth while it was in the first heaven.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Hard to follow most of what you are saying now, but I went back through the thread a ways and thought I should respond to this one:
You see, if Israel could have their sins remitted nationally, then Israel could indeed become that holy nation and kingdom of priests. You've said this before and I haven't known how to respond to it, because we'd just had that discussion about salvation by grace and now you are talking as if we hadn't had it. I think now what might clarify things is to say that this is one of the cases in which "Israel" refers not to earthly Israel but to the Church. You insisted way back in the thread that Israel is always earthly Israel but from the New Testament point of view it's not. As Paul said, the "true Israel of God" is the Church, meaning the whole body of believers in Christ. The only way anyone's sins are remitted is through recognizing Christ's death in our place. It's only believers whose sins are remitted. The whole earthly nation of Israel (the Jews as an ethnic group) has both believers and unbelievers. The thing is, the believers in ancient Israel DID have their sins remitted, just as we do, not the unbelievers but the believers, because they had the faith in God that saved them, even a glimmer of the coming Messiah which was part of their faith. The New Testament seems to indicate that the saints/true believers of Old Testament times, had to wait in a holding place for the dead until Jesus came, and when He died He went and preached to them where they were so that now they are with Him just as all believers are when we die. They couldn't be released until the Messiah actually came and died for them.
Exodus 19:5-6 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. When God tells the people who have just come out of Egypt that they will be to Him a kingdom of priests, this has to be understood to refer to SPIRITUAL Israel, people who believe. God loves sinners, but He doesn't save sinners as sinners, they have to come to believe and put their faith in Him and then they will become part of the kingdom of priests. This was true in the Old Testament nation of Israel just as it is for New Testament believers. You do know that the Church IS a "kingdom of priests" right? We are all the "priesthood of believers" according to Paul. We ARE "the Israel of God," made up of both Jew and Gentile. The Church IS "that holy nation and kingdom of priests." All of us who have had our sins remitted. The Church, the body of believers, not national Israel. We are being formed into a new "nation." What you keep saying you want to happen HAS happened already you see. We ARE that "holy nation and kingdom of priests" you want national Israel to become. There is no need for another such nation, we're it. When people come to believe, including Jews, they become part of THIS "holy nation and kingdom of priests."
And if Israel could become that holy nation and kingdom of priests, then the Gentiles would be able to come to Yahweh through Israel’s rise. Not sure what "Israel's rise" means, but Gentiles HAVE come to God in droves since Jesus Christ came, to such an extent that the Church seems to be a Gentile institution although the first believers were Jews and Jews are coming to Christ every day now it seems. Israel doesn't need to become that holy nation and kingdom of priests because the true Israel of God is the Church and it IS that holy nation and kingdom of priests, and hordes of Gentiles HAVE come to God through this true Israel.
That is why it would be important for Jesus ‘the messiah’ to be risen, so Israel could have their sins remitted, and they could arise, and the Gentiles could come to Yahweh through the nation Israel. It was only Israel having access to that eternal life that would make it possible for the Gentiles to have that eternal life through Israel’s rise, through the nation Israel. I just don't get why you don't see that this has already occurred. Jesus is the King of the true Israel, He HAS risen and the true Israel's sins HAVE been remitted, and the Gentiles HAVE come to God through the true Israel and DO have eternal life through Christ.
But you see, Israel nationally did not accept the Gospel of the Kingdom of Yahweh. They did not accept the Gospel of Yahweh; that Jesus was the son of Yahweh or that Jesus was the risen messiah. They did not accept that at all, so rather than rise, Israel fell. But huge numbers of Jews HAVE accepted the gospel, they accepted it while Jesus was on earth and they've accepted it throughout the centuries since then, more than ever in our own time. You have to make a distinction between believing Israel and unbelieving Israel, the heavenly Israel which is the Church and the earthly national Israel which is part of this world.
Yet, when it comes to Jesus being risen from among the dead, how could Israel’s promised earthly king sit on the throne of David in a promised literal, earthly kingdom, if the king Yahweh anointed for that kingdom remained a dead king. (By the way, Jesus is risen "from the dead," from death itself, not "from among the dead.") I guess I still don't understand what you are thinking of here, an anointed king who "remained a dead king." Jesus is risen, Jesus is alive, He is not dead, He's not a merely "earthly king," He's the God-Man, the Anointed Messiah, and scripture seems to say when He returns He will in fact reign from Jerusalem on the throne of David on this very earth for what is referred to as "the Millennium" -- a thousand years before this earth is destroyed.
If Jesus be not risen, there is no earthly king. If Jesus be not risen, there is no earthly kingdom. If there is no earthly kingdom and that is when Israel is supposed to be forgiven, then there is no forgiveness for the nation Israel; for the saints of the kingdom program. And if there is no forgiveness, there is no salvation. And if there is no salvation, there certainly is no bodily resurrection. And if there is no bodily resurrection, all this is a story, a fairytale.
But why on earth are you thinking like this when we do have a risen King in Jesus, who is seated at the right hand of the Father? And again, you need to think from the point of view of the New Testament: the earthly kingdom isn't what God's Plan of Redemption was about, it was about the true Israel of God, the heavenly kingdom of kings and priests who are the believers in Christ. The Israel of God is the Church and our sins ARE forgiven, there IS salvation in Christ for all who believe, and there is to be a resurrection of the body which is already demonstrated in the risen Christ and is promised to those who believe in Him. I've written this at horrific length I know, hoping to straighten out a confusion that at first seemed incomprehensible to me. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bob Bobber writes:
The earth WAS without form, and void. It's a state of being, not an action. There is nothing to suggest that there was any previous form.
... the earth became without form and void. Bob Bobber writes:
Cite book, chapter and verse for "first heaven".
Something was going on that earth while it was in the first heaven.
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
It is there. What does your Chapter and Verse say about?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Bob Bobber writes:
Where? Book, chapter and verse?
It is there. Bob Bobber writes:
As far as I know, there is no book, chapter or verse in the Bible that backs up your claims about Lucifer flooding the earth. If you know of any, cite them.
What does your Chapter and Verse say about?
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
The issue was not their sins, Israel always had a way to have their sins atoned for. Yahweh gave them a way to have their sins forgiven.
In contrast to the land, Yahweh’s sanctuary can be purified for moral impurity by means of a special sacrifice. The blood of the animal, the blood of the sacrifice is the key to the whole ritual. Blood, the blood that courses through one’s veins, represents the life force; the Noahide covenant, you may not spill human blood. And you may not eat animal flesh that has the lifeblood in it, because the blood is the life and that belongs to Yahweh, that’s holy.
So the life force is holy, and the life force is in the blood; Leviticus 17:11, repeats the blood prohibition, and then it offers a rationale. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have assigned it to you for making expiation for your lives upon the altar. Yahweh assigned it to them to use in sacrificial practices. It is the blood as life that effects expiation, purging and atonement. The blood of sacrificial animals is assigned by Yahweh as a detergent, if you will, to cleanse the sanctuary of the impurities that are caused by the sinful deeds of the Israelites.
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Bob Bobber Member (Idle past 2935 days) Posts: 187 Joined: |
Why are you Poe'in me around. There is no reasoning with a Poe!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The issue seems to be that most folk that post at EvC have actually read the Bible and know that there is no mention of some first heaven or Satan flooding the earth and that you are just making shit up.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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