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Author Topic:   Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's dead. The maneuvering begins!
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 122 (778227)
02-18-2016 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by RAZD
02-18-2016 12:03 PM


Re: Justice appointments in all Federal Court positions
Two candidates are not accepting big money donations: Bernie and Trump.
Trump is doing that for the primary race. Are any of the candidates going to tell PACs to butt out?
My personal favorite for an Obama nomination would be Loretta Lynch -- she was vetted and approved by this very senate on April 23, 2015.
Perhaps the person chosen won't be achieve anything except being forced to withdraw from consideration after an uncomfortable, degrading, and ridiculous spectacle in the senate, and then being out of consideration even if Bernie or Clinton wins. I'm far too pessimistic about the chances for confirmation of an Obama pick to even want to have a favorite candidate.
And Trump is technically not doing as well as Bernie, he just happens to be doing much better than each of the other GOP, but his numbers against a single opponent would be significantly different.
Interesting. I think getting 35% in a field of 8-10 candidates and coming close to tripling the next guy looks even better than Bernie's trouncing of Clinton in NH. And both Clinton and Trump seem set to do quite well in SC. Let's revisit this in two weeks.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2016 12:03 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2016 12:27 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 122 (778239)
02-18-2016 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Percy
02-18-2016 11:36 AM


Re: NYT Columnist Lays Into Scalia
quote:
If that seems an uncharitable, even tasteless observation, so be it.
In my view, this article is a bit tasteless this shortly after the good Justices death. On the other hand, I suppose there are other puff pieces being published in the same newspaper to balance this stuff out.
I’ve become increasingly concerned, as my recent columns have suggested, that the conservative majority is permitting the court to become an agent of partisan warfare to an extent that threatens real damage to the institution. Justice Scalia’s outsize role on and off the bench contributed to that dangerous development to an outsize degree.
Well said. And almost certainly, Obama is going to get the blame for being divisive.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Percy, posted 02-18-2016 11:36 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 122 (778623)
02-22-2016 1:17 PM


Original Intent at work...
Scalia was particularly strident about the viability of the death penalty. Scalia ended up in the minority on a case that the Supreme Court decided that makes it essentially impossible to execute a man with an IQ less than 70. Scalia acknowledged that the original intent allowed men who were 'idiots' to escape execution, but he balked on the use of any modern technique to establish mental incompetence.
quote:
In his dissent, Scalia used as his moral criterion an 18th century dictionary's definition of "idiot" as "such a person who cannot account or number twenty pence, nor can tell who was his father or mother, nor how old he is." According to Scalia's perception of the Constitution as not living but dead, that archaic definition should have guided the court's decision and not any modern understanding of diminished mental capacity. Dobie, who had an IQ of 65 but knew exactly who his mama was, would have failed Scalia's "idiot" test.
Here, the difference between 'originalism' and 'textualism' is readily apparent. Scalia digs through history to find what 18th century history could discern regarding mental illness and insists on using that archaic medical position as definitive on how we ought to read the constitution. In my view that's patently ridiculous.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 122 (778624)
02-22-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by RAZD
02-19-2016 12:27 PM


Re: Justice appointments in all Federal Court positions
I don't see his supporters going to Cruz but to Rubio (because of Cruz skulduggery re Carson
Ah, RAZD. Ever the rational one. I don't think people really care about that stuff. Carson's complaints about that stuff have been decreed to be whining.
ABE:
Or maybe not! Ted Cruz let his number one spokesman go today after yet another dirty trick. Rick Tyler was forced to resign after he posted a video showing Rubio stating that there were no answers to be found in the Bible, when in fact Rubio had stated that all of the answers were there, and in particular citing the book of Proverbs as being replete with wisdom.
I think that is about four or so blatant lies that Cruz has had to acknowledge originated with his campaign.
Edited by Admin, : Typo.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2016 12:27 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 75 of 122 (778694)
02-23-2016 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by RAZD
02-19-2016 12:27 PM


Re: Justice appointments in all Federal Court positions
Another reason to pick Lynch -- she already has a federal position to fall back on -- is that she can wait out the process and let the people see their persecution as either racist, misogynist, or both. That would bring angry voters to the booths to elect senators as well as the president.
I've thought about this over the last few days, and I now agree with your choice of nominee.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2016 12:27 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Theodoric, posted 02-23-2016 1:25 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 77 by RAZD, posted 02-24-2016 3:54 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 122 (778825)
02-24-2016 4:30 PM


Could Obama chose a Republican as the replacement Justice?
Democrat Harry Reid backs Republican for Supreme Court | CNN Politics
quote:
Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said Wednesday that he would support Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval as the next Supreme Court justice, putting his weight behind a moderate Hispanic Republican from his home state.
Sandoval, a former federal judge, is being vetted for the spot, according to a source close to the process, although he has not been actively involved in the process.
"Neither Governor Sandoval nor his staff have been contacted by or talked to the Obama Administration regarding any potential vetting for the vacancy on the U.S. Supreme Court," according to a statement from Mari St. Martin, his communications director.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Pressie, posted 02-25-2016 6:41 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 122 (778970)
02-27-2016 2:56 PM


Judge Posner on the Supreme Court??
Supreme Court: Here's who should replace Antonin Scalia | CNN
quote:
I want to suggest a third option: The President should appoint a leading legal mind at the end of his career. In particular, the President should nominate Judge Richard Posner to the Supreme Court. Posner is a leading intellectual light of the past half-century in law. He is the author of more than 40 books -- many of them landmarks and classics in diverse fields.
The article goes on to say that opposing Posner would be very difficult because of his tremendous statute, that it would avoid the need to point an apparent moderate who might later out philosophically the opposite of what the President intended (as did Souter and Brennan) and that Posner is too old to stay on the Court for a long period of time if there is some regret.
Interesting analysis.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by RAZD, posted 02-28-2016 8:20 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 122 (779006)
02-28-2016 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
02-28-2016 9:51 AM


Re: Texas Law Comes Before the Supreme Court
ruling that "any conceivable rationale" was sufficient justification regardless of any effect on a "woman's free choice" or any burden. There must be some real crazies sitting on that court.
...
Evidence that the law's goal isn't as stated...
Not quite "real crazies". Just some motivated judges opinion on what they believe the standard of review is. What they have stated is essentially the rationale basis test which is the test to be applied when the right at issue is less protected that are fundamental rights such as first amendment rights. The courts have always balanced a states rights vs individual rights as part of the analysis with respect to abortion.
For non fundamental rights, the rational basis test is the correct test, and the court often accepts reasons that are quite obviously pretexts. About the only reasoning that won't survive a rational basis test is one that is clearly either illegal or irrational. (For example maintaining racial purity was a clearly illegal rationale) Truth is a secondary issue here (if rational basis is the standard).
The problems here are that 1) the judges in the circuit court clearly applied the wrong standard and 2) a measure that effectively prevents abortions in huge portions of the state the size of Texas, and this measure clearly does exactly that, most likely won't be upheld at the Supreme Court, so the measure probably won't base any kind of enhanced scrutiny.
I believe you pretty much nailed the issue in the remainder of your post. In summary, the right in question here may fall short of fundamental, but the Supreme Court has already said that 'rational basis' is not the right standard. Maybe something like intermediate scrutiny is applicable.
But a 5-3 outcome isn't impossible if Kennedy switches sides.
I think this is the most likely outcome.
ABE: I should have said I think this is a likely outcome. Not clear if it is the most likely outcome.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 02-28-2016 9:51 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 86 of 122 (779009)
02-28-2016 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
02-28-2016 9:51 AM


Re: Texas Law Comes Before the Supreme Court
. But a 5-3 outcome isn't impossible if Kennedy switches sides
When you say "switch sides", you are aware that Kennedy wrote the opinion in Casey v. Planned Parenthood, right? I know we talk about liberal vs. conservative, but Kennedy's position is a bit more nuanced that is, say Thomas' position on abortion. Kennedy agreed that the state had an interest that supported some restrictions, but that those restrictions could not substantially burden a 'fundamental right to chose'. Perhaps switching sides in this case would mean joining the other three conservatives.
Also, let's not forget that the Fifth Circuit is probably the most conservative of all of the federal circuit courts.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 02-28-2016 9:51 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Percy, posted 02-29-2016 7:59 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 87 of 122 (779027)
02-28-2016 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by RAZD
02-28-2016 12:24 PM


Re: Texas Law Comes Before the Supreme Court
The worst that can happen here is that a 4-4 tie leaves the decision intact for the fifth circuit only. No other circuit would be bound by the Supreme Court decision if the vote is tied.
Another possible outcome is that if there is a tie, the Justices won't decide the case until a new Justice is appointed. In fact, that's a fairly likely outcome.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by RAZD, posted 02-28-2016 12:24 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 122 (779128)
03-01-2016 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Percy
02-29-2016 7:59 AM


Re: Texas Law Comes Before the Supreme Court
This is too confusing for me to parse and I'm not going to try to dissect it.
It is a rather complicated thing to unravel. None of the opinions in this case were fully adopted by all of the members of the majority.
To add some pessimism about what Kennedy might do, since Casey, Kennedy has seldom seen a restriction that he did not think was okay. I think he is something like 20 for 21 in upholding new restrictions.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Percy, posted 02-29-2016 7:59 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 122 (780583)
03-17-2016 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by AZPaul3
03-16-2016 5:57 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
This Republican obstructionism of the Nation's judicial function is anathema to the statesmanship that characterized the US Senate for more than 200 years. This is a sad day for the republic and portends even greater malfunction of, indeed malfeasance by, this Nation's most storied deliberative body.
Working against Obama is his vote to filibuster Alito. Obama says that he regrets having done so, but Republicans will certainly use his past vote against him.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by AZPaul3, posted 03-16-2016 5:57 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2016 1:27 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 97 by Theodoric, posted 03-17-2016 8:19 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 122 (780594)
03-17-2016 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by AZPaul3
03-17-2016 1:27 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
don't think Alito has anything to do with the Republican's intransigence here
I agree. The Alito filibuster vote is just ammo to use against Obama. Obama will have to deal with that when he attempts to use his bull pulpit against the senate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2016 1:27 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 114 of 122 (786718)
06-25-2016 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Diomedes
05-12-2016 2:56 PM


Re: Now what?
One of the articles written in the wake of Scalia's death praised him as a defender of the fourth amendment. Perhaps that article had a point.
The remaining conservative justices doing what they normally do, plus Breyer, who is indisputably the least reliably liberal of the liberal wing of the Court, siding with the conservative wing, issued a ruling that guts the 4th amendment and diminishes the exclusionary rule to the point where the fourth amendment is all but toothless against an illegal seizure by the police.
The case in question is Utah vs. Strieff. The Utah Supreme Court conceded that the stop of Strieff was conducted illegally, and the Justices of the Supreme Court agreed as well. However, the Court found reason to allow the evidence from the search to be used against Strieff to criminally prosecute him.
quote:
Minutes after Edward Strieff walked out of a South Salt Lake City home, an officer stopped him, questioned him, and took his identification to run it through a police database. The officer did not suspect that Strieff had done anything wrong. Strieff just happened to be the first person to leave a house that the officer thought might contain drug activity.
From Sotomayor's dissent:
quote:
The Court today holds that the discovery of a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket will forgive a police officer’s violation of your Fourth Amendment rights.
Do not be soothed by the opinion’s technical language: This case allows the police to stop you on the street, demand your identification, and check it for outstanding traffic warrantseven if you are doing nothing wrong. If the officer discovers a warrant for a fine you forgot to pay, courts will now excuse his illegal stop and will admit into evidence anything he happens to find by searching you after arresting you on the warrant.
Because the Fourth Amendment should prohibit, not permit, such misconduct, I dissent.
Yes, the person in question did in fact have drugs on him. But the ruling applies to how the police interact with innocent folks as well as guilty folks. Because there is essentially no penalty for doing so, anyone can now be stopped by police and searched without probable cause or even a suggestion of wrong doing. And even minor reasons, such as outstanding parking tickets, might well validate a search of your person.
I have difficult time believing that Scalia would have gone along with this ruling, were he alive, and in this case, his vote would not have saved the fourth amendment. But we should expect that the next president might select up to four Justices between now and the end of his tenure. So called moderate judges are perfectly okay with rulings like this.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Diomedes, posted 05-12-2016 2:56 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 115 of 122 (786810)
06-27-2016 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
02-28-2016 9:51 AM


Supreme Court Invalidates Texas Abortion law
Before Scalia's death the Supreme Court would have upheld the Fifth Circuit ruling, and the 4-4 tie that seems likely now would have the same result by leaving the Fifth Circuit ruling in place. But a 5-3 outcome isn't impossible if Kennedy switches sides.
As predicted, the Court found that the Fifth Circuit had instituted the incorrect standard of review and had given short shrift to the burden their law placed on a woman's right to choose. Kennedy joined with the liberal judges and signed on to Breyer's opinion in what was likely an easy case for everyone except Kennedy. Scalia's death makes no difference to the outcome.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 02-28-2016 9:51 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Theodoric, posted 06-27-2016 11:39 PM NoNukes has replied

  
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