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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 357 of 451 (779757)
03-07-2016 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by GDR
03-07-2016 7:17 PM


Re: What IS Christianity? Its What WE choose it to be.
GDR writes:
I have no idea why you insist on calling yourself a Christian. Your beliefs line up perfectly with the agnostic view. I know you belong to a church but Christianity is a belief, not a social group.
Except as this thread so clearly shows, Christianity is not a belief but rather a whole collection of different beliefs, all claiming the mantle of Christianity. There is Christianity as you market it, Christianity as Phat markets it, Christianity as Faith markets it, Christianity as Bob Bobber markets it, even Christianity as I try to market it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by GDR, posted 03-07-2016 7:17 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by GDR, posted 03-07-2016 8:57 PM jar has replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 359 of 451 (779759)
03-07-2016 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by GDR
03-07-2016 8:57 PM


Re: What IS Christianity? Its What WE choose it to be.
GDR writes:
Of course it is a belief. Everyone on that list believes something specific to Christianity except you. You have even said that your beliefs are consist with Buddhism, and as I have pointed out, even consistent with agnosticism. Name anything that you believe that couldn't just as easily be believed by either one of those two groups.
Utter nonsense GDR as I have pointed out here many times but in the spirit of this topic I will gladly try yet again to express what I see as Christianity.
First I believe that the individual known as Jesus actually existed. It is a belief of course and so I could certainly also be wrong. That is not agnosticism but simple honesty.
I believe that Jesus is a sacrifice for us by God as laid out in the Nicene Creed:
quote:
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
I will pause here for a moment before returning to the Nicene Creed because this is where the Christianity I try to market does begin to differ from what so many others try to sell.
IMHO THIS is the sacrifice, not Jesus death. It is GOD becoming man, not man/god but just simply man; man that is born of a woman, that will live, that will die. It is GOD, the creator of all that is seen; becoming something far less, a weak human unable to even focus his eyes, having to learn to control his bowels to see, to talk, to walk, needed to be fed and not understanding why he is not fed NOW.
And it is this life of sacrifice, of teaching that is for our salvation. Jesus is born and so will die. That is fact from the moment of his conception.
His death will happen as it happens to all men.
Yes, he suffered under Pontius Pilot according to the stories and was executed; but his execution was not anything unique, in fact at least two other people suffered the same fate the same day and it's likely there many others across the Roman Empire that same day.
But Jesus was going to die no matter what. Jesus death was inexorable.
quote:
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
Did he rise from the dead? According to the stories yes and I believe that is what happened. But of course I also understand I could well be wrong.
But I also believe it really does not matter.
The story of rising from the dead is as I have pointed out far from unique in either the Bible or other mythology. It was a common theme. The belief though does offer hope for a life after death. But for that to have any meaning to man, Jesus too must have been a man at the time of his death. Not man/god since man are not gods; human just can't do the things gods do.
The important part there though is not the resurrection but rather the ascension and change from man to God.
quote:
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
And this is important. If that happens then he would no longer be a failed Messiah but until that happens Jesus is simply a failed messiah.
I believe (again, I understand I may well be wrong) that if there is a life after death then we will be judged at that time and judged based on what we have done. I do not expect any gettouttahellfree card simply based on my beliefs. I don't see Jesus death as any payment for any of my sins.
I hope that I will be forgiven but understand that if that happens it will be by GOD's grace and not some prepayment sacrifice or something I earn by acts, beliefs or profession.
And if this is true, then the lines above that show Jesus as a failed messiah may well be revised; if judgement happens on an individual basis instead of at some mass rising of all the millions of years of dead folk, then Jesus may well be the Messiah. But no one alive can ever know and so for all those living Jesus is still a failed messiah.
But, and here is perhaps where you get the idea I might not be a Christian, I also believe strongly that Christianity as has been marketed from the very beginning is NOT the one true religion. It is a map, a guide.
There are also other maps, other guides out there; as flawed in their own way as Christianity is. I believe Christianity is not THE RIGHT Path, but it is my path.
I believe that what Jesus taught us by his life is that we are charged to do is right, to care for others and the world we live in, and that we will be judged based on our actions, not our beliefs.
I believe that if we look at Jesus behavior as described in the stories it is a life of doing for others, feeding the hungry, making the beer run at the party, healing the sick, comforting the sorrowful. Jesus leads us by example and we are charged to do as he did.
As I said and you even quoted "Christianity is not a belief but rather a whole collection of different beliefs, all claiming the mantle of Christianity."
What you market is different than what Phat markets and what Faith markets and what I market. Christianity is not set in stone, has evolved and changed over time and will continue to evolve and change. It has been a force for good as well as one of the destructive forces of all time.
So short and incomplete synopsis and review. I hope it answers your questions.
But what I hope will happen in this thread is not a continuing debate about which Christianity is the right Christianity since all the evidence seems to show they are all wrong, but rather individual expositions of what that person thinks is Christianity. Once they person presents their idea of what Christianity is questions could be asked to clarify their position.
Edited by jar, : Theme is not spelled them

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by GDR, posted 03-07-2016 8:57 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 365 of 451 (779895)
03-09-2016 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Phat
03-09-2016 12:37 AM


Re: What IS Christianity? Its What WE choose it to be.
Phat writes:
What, if anything, was Jesus marketing? Is there any evidence that Jesus would have approved and/or disapproved of Pauls new religion"?
Jesus was clearly marketing a collection of behavior patterns, a way that people should relate to one another and to their God. Please your God by taking care of each other and the world you live in; feed the hungry, heal the sick, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, teach the children to do the same.
I think Jesus would approve of some of Paul's product, disapprove of parts and just laugh at much of it. Jesus would likely have approved of the inclusionary parts, getting rid of outdated "God's Commandments" like circumcision, dietary restrictions, identification as a people apart and even going so far as adopting and co-opting pagan practices and worship.
I doubt Jesus would have approved of Paul's effort to make his death of greater significance and would have laughed at the very idea of Christianity as a separate religion.
I imagine Jesus would have disagreed with Paul's misogyny or his early concentration on End of Times and would have been appalled with the idea that the goal was some afterlife and not a concentration on this life.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Phat, posted 03-09-2016 12:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 373 of 451 (780277)
03-13-2016 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by petrophysics1
03-13-2016 1:26 PM


Re: Jesus is not God
Perhaps you might tell us what YOU think Christianity is?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by petrophysics1, posted 03-13-2016 1:26 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by petrophysics1, posted 03-13-2016 8:40 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 377 of 451 (780303)
03-13-2016 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by petrophysics1
03-13-2016 8:40 PM


Re: Jesus is not God
I want to know what you think Christianity is. If that entails you telling us what you think Jesus was telling us, then that is fine.
The topic was hopefully to showcase just how many and divergent the visions of Christianity really are.
This is perhaps important since unlike the two other major Abrahamic religions Christianity does not have a defined moral and legal system comparable to halakhah or sharia. While we might disagree with those two sets we must at least acknowledge they exist.
But as to being a biker, not since Kennedy was in office I fear. My roommate had a car driver make a right hand turn from the left lane and had to put his bike down and spent a year with a steel rod from ankle to hip. Have not so much as sat on a bike since then.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by petrophysics1, posted 03-13-2016 8:40 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by petrophysics1, posted 03-14-2016 3:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 379 of 451 (780386)
03-14-2016 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by petrophysics1
03-14-2016 3:04 PM


Re: Jesus is not God
Is that about what Christianity is?
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by petrophysics1, posted 03-14-2016 3:04 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 390 of 451 (780600)
03-17-2016 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by Phat
03-17-2016 6:35 PM


Re: The Hills Are Alive
Phat writes:
Would you be able to say that you have as much personal experience with Jesus Christ as CS Lewis did?
Since Jesus is not alive and was not alive while CS Lewis was alive is there any evidence CS Lewis had any personal experience or even could have any personal experience with Jesus Christ?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 389 by Phat, posted 03-17-2016 6:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 8:16 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 392 of 451 (780607)
03-17-2016 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Faith
03-17-2016 8:16 PM


Re: The Hills Are Alive
Faith writes:
Believers in Christ know He is alive because we have a relationship with Him and scripture clearly says He is alive. What do you think "resurrection" means, or "He is risen?" He is alive forevermore. Do you just discount everything scripture says about how He gives believers eternal life? Everlasting life? How could He give anybody eternal life if He didn't have it Himself?
I know folk make such a claim but so far no one has ever been able to explain how "Jesus is alive" or even what that means. And of course you can give something you yourself do not have,; I personally have done that thousands of times.
Perhaps you can explain what such words really mean. Does Jesus today have to take a crap, to eat, to breathe?
Papers from shillsters really are not very good evidence Faith. Tell that person to come join in and let's see if they can support their assertions.
This topic is to try to explain or at least present some of the flavors of Christianity.
Now you claim as does Phat that Jesus is alive.
So what does that even mean?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 8:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 8:52 PM jar has replied
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 03-18-2016 2:15 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 394 of 451 (780612)
03-17-2016 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Faith
03-17-2016 8:52 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Faith writes:
Scripture makes it clear that Jesus has a glorified body since rising from the dead, that He can walk through walls, and that He can eat, though it doesn't say anything about whether he HAS to eat or do any other physical functions. He is certainly alive: He was seen by all the disciples, He talked to them over a period of forty days, in a recognizably human body. In that resurrection body He persuaded Thomas that He was alive from the dead (and also that He was God Himself, since he called Him "My Lord and my God"). He also walked with two disciples to Emmaus in a recognizable human body even though they didn't recognize Him personally right away, and had a long discussion with them before having a meal with them.
That is all nice but irrelevant to the question asked. Those are all stories from before the ascension.
You claim Jesus is alive. Present tense. Not Jesus was alive but is alive.
What does that mean?
Faith writes:
Besides denying that the disciples saw and spoke with Him after the resurrection I suppose you also deny that Paul actually spoke with the risen living Christ on the road to Damascus after He was ascended to heaven?
As you know and as I have pointed out to you many times the tale of Paul's encounter evolved over time and as it was embellished and recounted. In the initial version Paul does not met or talk with Jesus.
Have you ever read the Bible Faith?
Edited by jar, : befor needed an e

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 8:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 9:40 PM jar has replied
 Message 406 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 396 of 451 (780615)
03-17-2016 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by Faith
03-17-2016 9:40 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Faith writes:
So now you want proof that He's alive after the ascension, and certainly you have some fanciful way of dismissing the scriptural statement that He is now sitting at the right hand of the Father making intercession for His followers.
Nothing in that implies actually being alive Faith.
What does "Jesus is alive" mean?
Faith writes:
Well, Paul's story didn't evolve, that's your own weird way of misconstruing his various tellings of the story, as if anybody ever recounts an experience in exactly the same terms every time.
If you want I can once again post the versions of Paul's encounter so that just as with the story of Jesus resurrect and the Great Commission folk can see how the story gets fancier and more elaborate, evolved, after reach retelling.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 9:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 11:52 PM jar has replied
 Message 399 by Phat, posted 03-18-2016 2:21 AM jar has not replied
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 03-18-2016 2:21 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 401 of 451 (780637)
03-18-2016 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by Faith
03-17-2016 11:52 PM


Various versions of Paul's conversion and of the Great Commission
The evolution of the Great Commission was laid out for you in the thread The evolution of the Great Commission over time.. Here is the timeline and changes.
quote:
Look at the Great Commission as found in Matthew 28:
quote: 16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
"19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."
Obey what I have commanded you.
If you read all of Matthew, you will find that what we are commanded to do is "try to do our best for others."
There is nothing in there about salvation, nothing in there about an afterlife, nothing in there about any benefits that the disciples would get. It is about going and doing, about feeding and clothing and seeing that folk have clean water and shelter and jobs.
By the time the advertiser came back and revised Mark adding the "Long Ending", the Great Commission had begun to change.
quote:14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
Originally Mark ended with just an empty tomb and the women running away afraid, but that was a really hard sell. So at sometime someone came back and added the parts from Mark 16:10-20.
This version is much different. It now has some real benefits, salvation just for believing and getting baptized and the chance to do some really neat tricks. It is a much easier sale, all you need to do is go profess the "Good News" rather than just doing little stuff like feeding and clothing and shelter. AND it offers a real reward.
Then along came the author of John, and he makes the deal even sweeter.
quote:19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
Now the doors are locked and Jesus still shows up and for the first time, the disciples are given the power to even override GOD. If they forgive sins the sins are forgiven but if they don't forgive sins then the person is damned.
Now that is real power.
This trend of marketing Christianity has continued on down until today.
You gotta admit that telling someone all they need to do is believe and get baptized is a whole lot easier to sell then telling them they gotta do for the least of these with no guarantee of reward. And you gotta admit telling folk "I have the power to damn you" is a pretty strong incentive.
So was the evolution of the post resurrection story and the Great Commission driven by marketing pressure?
The story of Paul's conversion also evolved over time and as different people retold the story. The first and earliest mention is found in 1 Corinthians 15:8. Here is that passage in context.
Paul in 1Cor 15:3-8 writes:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
It's a very simple mention that Paul saw Jesus but void of any of the details found in latter stories.
The next recounting is from somewhat later and again it is pretty simple and in fact says it was a revelation from God (not Jesus) and that he was not speaking with flesh and blood.
Paul in Galatians 1:11-16 writes:
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
As an aside, Galatians is one of those very important interoffice memos (and just as today, we don't have access to the original but only copies from about a half century later) where Paul begins outlining his new definition of Pauline Christianity.
Still later, the author of Acts, attributed to Luke, recounts yet another version but now there are far more details and far more stagecraft.
Luke in Acts 9:3—9 writes:
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
The story picks up at verse 13.
Luke in Acts 9:13—19 writes:
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
In Acts 22 the story is recounted another time but again the details are elaborate and the details contradict the earlier version.
Paul said to be speaking in Acts 22 writes:
22 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Note that again, even though the details contradict earlier reports Paul again does not speak as though he is in the presence of a living person but rather some vision.
The point of all this is to show that the Christian mythos was not just Jesus teachings, rather it is the product of the people who were marketing Christianity.
AbE:
And the most important revelation in all this is that nothing in either Paul's conversion or the Great Commission says or implies or indicates Jesus being alive today.
The question remains, when you assert Jesus is alive, what does that mean?
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by Faith, posted 03-17-2016 11:52 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 402 of 451 (780638)
03-18-2016 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by Phat
03-18-2016 2:15 AM


Re: Jesus Is Alive
Again Phat, how is some "living spirit within us" alive.
Help us understand.
The purpose of this thread is to allow you and others to present your version of what Christianity is but to do that you need to explain what the bumper sticker slogans you present really mean.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 03-18-2016 2:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 403 of 451 (780639)
03-18-2016 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 400 by Phat
03-18-2016 2:21 AM


Re: Did Paul Know Christ? Can We?
Phat writes:
Is there a possibility that you can learn anything new from us or do you simply want to be the first kid in class to raise his hand?
I certainly can't learn if you don't teach. So far it seems extremely difficult to get Christians to actually tell us what is Christianity.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Phat, posted 03-18-2016 2:21 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 407 of 451 (780671)
03-18-2016 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by Faith
03-18-2016 4:11 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Faith writes:
His being alive after the resurrection but before the ascension is sufficient to make the case that He's also alive after the ascension.
Again, how is that evidence that Jesus is alive today?
What does "Jesus is alive today" even mean.
And no quote from Revelation addresses anything today.
Faith writes:
What does it mean? Well, I believe I'll get to see Him in the flesh eventually, in a human body, a real person, able to talk to me.
And will you be alive at that time?
What does that even mean?
Edited by jar, : missed second assertion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 409 of 451 (780675)
03-18-2016 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Faith
03-18-2016 4:28 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
You say it is a new body that will not get sick or weak.
That does not fit anything we know of that is alive.
What does "Jesus is alive today" mean?
What does "Yes I will be alive at that time. I will be me, in a lovely new body that can't get sick or weak." mean in relation to what we know today as being alive?
AbE:
Let me try an example all should be familiar with, George Washington's hatchet he used to chop down the cherry tree. The handle had been replaced a few times and the head at least once, but it's the very same hatchett.
HUH?
You will have a new body but you will still be you?
What does that mean?
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 6:46 PM jar has replied
 Message 414 by kbertsche, posted 03-19-2016 1:04 AM jar has replied

  
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