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Author Topic:   Ruling out an expanding universe with conventional proofs
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 212 of 223 (781472)
04-04-2016 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:27 PM


Let's not quibble over terms here. If all that is the universe came sailing out of that little sweet nothing I think we can refer to it as a thing. If we refer to the universe as a thing, why not!?
Whatever thing you are referring to, it cannot be the singularity.
If there was no singularity what would have expanded!!?
The Universe, which the singularity is not.
quote:
There has never been nothing.
Like you would know.
Huh? I'm talking about what the Big Bang theory says, this is not a statement of knowledge that I have.
Obviously there was no time in the created universe before the universe existed!
Exactly, so I should never see you type about where the Universe came from.
Says you who couldn't possibly know. Why even talk?
Nobody knows anything, hurray, there's no reason for us to converse.
Now, if you want to talk about what the Big Bang theory says (as per the forum that this thread is in), then I'm pretty sure we can talk about that.
Never never land then. OK. Fantasy. Speculation. Modeling based on earth time and space and etc.
No problem. Science and scientists will continue forward figuring things out and solving problems while you sit back and wallow in your ignorance proclaiming that it is all a bunch of bullshit.
Nobody cares.
quote:
Similarly, the Universe never reaches the singularity.
I'll say!!
quote:
The singularity is not a point in time where the Universe exists.
Well put!
If you understand these things then why do you post to the contrary?
So if there was no magic singularity, what could have expanded or done anything?
The Universe, itself.
The singularity is not a thing nor is it a state of the Universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:27 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 219 of 223 (781522)
04-04-2016 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by starlite
04-04-2016 4:54 PM


quote:
Whatever thing you are referring to, it cannot be the singularity.
OK looks like we need to do baby steps with you then. If there was no singularity little soup thingie (sorry if I get technical) then do you claim the universe would still have expanded? One assumes that what expanded was that little hot soup, no? Otherwise what was it exactly?
The singularity is not the "hot soup". The hot soup is the Universe. The Universe was not the singularity.
The singularity isn't some thing that exists. As I've been saying, think of it like an asymptote.
As the Universe approaches it, the Universe gets hotter and denser. But the Universe never actually gets there.
Here is the plot of 1/X (we'll only use the positive portion):
Starting at (1,1); as we keep going to the left towards the y-axis, the value of the function keeps getting larger and larger. As X approaches zero, the function approaches infinity. But if you ask what happens at zero, then the function becomes undefined. You can't divide by zero.
That's kinda like how in the Big Bang Theory, as we go closer towards the beginning then it gets hotter and denser. But the Universe does not exist at the point of the singularity, it doesn't come from the singularity, it never was the singularity, the singularity never burped it out.
Does that make sense?
The universe then had to be real small to expand. So what does a singularity have to do with it if it was not from the hot soup singularity it expanded? You think the hot soup was just an observer on the sidelines?
Obviously not, because I keep repeating that the singularity is not a thing that can do stuff.
You're basically asking what the y-axis has to do to get the value of the function 1/X to appear from it at an infinite value.
So talk. We can keep in mind it is a fairy tale and you admit not knowing.
I am talking. Start comprehending.
I don't care if you reject the Big Bang theory or not. But I am going to correct your mischaracterizations of it.
So the teensie hot soup was not a singularity?
No, it was not. The "soup" is the Universe. At no point in time does it exist as the singularity.
It was what, just the little non thing the whole universe came from?
The universe didn't come from it. It isn't a thing. It doesn't do stuff. Stuff doesn't come from it.
Because creation is where the universe came from so obviously there was no time here before that! You can say it was the hot soup that was here, but you admit not really knowing. Many call that religion.
Unfortunately, I don't share in your opinion that being a religion (is some derogatory place that) can be used to cast insults against my opponent's position (that I only think resembles being one), so your insult fell flat. But I am curious what you think is so bad about being a religion that you feel like you can tarnish my position with being one?
I have religious beliefs.
What the Big Bang Theory says (in layman's terms) is not one of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:54 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 9:24 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 222 of 223 (781569)
04-05-2016 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by starlite
04-04-2016 9:24 PM


Ok so if you are right, we should not call the little hot soup that spawned the universe the singularity.
You also shouldn't say that the little hot soup spawned the Universe because the little hot soup is the Universe. It'd be no different than saying that yesterday spawned the Universe.
Thanks for that. Nice to get the fable straight.
You're welcome.
I will have to get a second opinion of course, but we can go with that for now.
Okay, let me know if you have any questions.
Do you now understand how what you wrote earlier is simply nonsense?:
quote:
a singularity existed you know not why or how, and burped out the universe for no known reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 9:24 PM starlite has not replied

  
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