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Author Topic:   This belief thing
Tangle
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Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 104 of 162 (783872)
05-09-2016 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
05-09-2016 12:27 PM


Faith writes:
that's an odd conclusion to draw from what I said.
It simply flows from what you have said, which is that you're not sure that you and GDR worship the same god, yet you each call yourself Christian.
Jar does something else. Since God is presented in the Bible as being both severe and merciful, wrathful and patient, jealous and longsuffering, jar decides there is more than one god there. Most normal readers of the Bible understand that there is a time for wrath and a time for patience in the same personality, but not jar.
Most normal readers of the bible take the stories as myth.
Jar's reading is just another version. Three Christians, 3 different gods. Go figure.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 05-09-2016 12:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 111 of 162 (783890)
05-09-2016 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Modulous
05-09-2016 3:16 PM


You need to add politics and power. Apt quote from another work of man's imagination - Game of Thrones.
The faith and the crown are the two pillars that hold up this world. One collapses so does the other. We must do everything necessary to protect one another.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Modulous, posted 05-09-2016 3:16 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 139 of 162 (784186)
05-13-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by LamarkNewAge
05-13-2016 4:33 PM


Re: Remembered one more thing from my "dissapeared" post?
LMA writes:
I mentioned that the Bible says that the entire northern kingdom of Israel was shipped to Iranian cities.
Then easterners were placed in Samaria as a replacement.
in 721 BCE?
See 2 Kings 17 (?)
Finkelstein's book starts out describing the refugees that filled Jerusalem around the same 720-730 date, and their endeavor to write a history. They came from the northern kingdom.
I'll let you know if I remember any more of my post.
I don't give a flying fluke. The thread isn't about whether individual nonsenses that various religions believe are true or otherwise, it's about why they believe them given their variety and incompatibility.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-13-2016 4:33 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-14-2016 4:15 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 147 of 162 (784226)
05-14-2016 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by LamarkNewAge
05-14-2016 4:15 PM


Re: The thread isn't about ... [but] it's about why they believe them given their variety
LNA writes:
I'm a little confused (o.k. more than just a little).
What exactly is this about and how are we to discuss it?
The premise is that there are virtually endless belief systems from ancestor worship to multiple god worship to, well you name it, it's a belief somewhere.
The intricacies of individual belief systems are irrelevant (if amusing in a tragic sort of way), but they can't all be true. The question is why, now that we know all about the world's different and contradictory beliefs we still believe what we individually believe and believe that everyone else is wrong.
If 99.99% of all belief systems are wrong or dead, why are the believers so sure that theirs is the chosen one?
There's a secondary issue - are we just programmed to believe?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-14-2016 4:15 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 155 of 162 (784390)
05-17-2016 6:46 PM


Perhaps you two could take your pointless squabble elsewhere?
There's lots of space for inane biblical argument but it ain't here.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-18-2016 12:13 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 157 of 162 (784460)
05-18-2016 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by LamarkNewAge
05-18-2016 12:13 PM


Re: But.
LNA writes:
We are trying to understand the range of beliefs out there and why they are held.
No, you're fixated on biblical trivia. The OP is not about literacy criticism, it's asking why their are so many of these detailed belief system to argue the trivia about.
I'm done.
Do you have no on-topic comment then?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-18-2016 12:13 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 159 of 162 (790684)
09-03-2016 11:47 AM


Trolls
Just had to add a new belief to the thread.
I've just spent a week in Norway. Norway, like Scandinavia generally is not a religious/believing country.
quote:
Religion in Norway is mostly Evangelical Lutheran, with 72.9% of the population officially belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway in 2015.[1] The Catholic Church is the next largest Christian church at 2.4%.[2] The officially unaffiliated make up 13.0% of the population.[3] Islam is followed by 2.4% of the population, making it the largest non-Christian religion.[3]
The Evangelical Lutheran Church has a privileged place in society, though less so since a constitutional change in 2012.[4]
Early Norwegians, like all of the people of Scandinavia, were adherents of Norse paganism; the Smi having a shamanistic religion.[5] Norway was gradually Christianized by Christian missionaries between 1000 and 1150. Before the Protestant Reformation in 1536, Norwegians were part of the Catholic Church.
Norway has seen a great decline in religiosity and most Norwegians are irreligious. According to the Eurobarometer Poll of 2010:[6]
22% of Norwegian citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".
44% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force".
29% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force".
5% answered that they "do not know".
Estimated atheism rates in Norway range from 31 to 72%.[7]
(Gotta love the 31-72% range of atheism)
Anyhow - regardless of the above - they have a very strange relationship with trolls.
Trolls live under bridges and in caves and only come out at night. They're ugly buggers.
And I think that an awful lot of the population believe in them. It's a weird thing. A bit like a lot of Irish really do believe in leprechauns.
There's nowt so queer as folk. Myths take a long time to die and even when they're sort of dead, they lurk in our consciousness.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Hawkins, posted 09-14-2016 2:40 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 161 of 162 (791343)
09-14-2016 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Hawkins
09-14-2016 2:40 PM


Re: Trolls
Hawkins writes:
Since when humans are willing to die to witness to existence of trolls.
Since when was the test of a real god been whether humans are prepared to die for them? If that's the test, there's a truck load if 'real' gods.
Does it sound even logical to say that because you speculate that too many false gods exist that a true God cannot exist?
And who is saying that? Just you perhaps? God is a black swan. But at least white swans exist.
However, the fact that humans are known to make up almost unmeasurable amounts of silly superstitions and belief systems, combined with the total lack of evidence for any of them leads to a conclusion that the likelyhood is that gods do not exist.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Hawkins, posted 09-14-2016 2:40 PM Hawkins has not replied

  
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