quote:
[LamarkNewAge]
The Islamic texts have always said that the Jewish texts weren't the original unmolested texts.
[Modulous]
Most educated Jews and Christians agree with them on many points regarding non-originality and unmolested condition of the texts.
What's your point?
My point is that they never had a great explanation of what the original texts said.
quote:
[LNA]
I think we all can imagine lots of "chatter" over the past 1400 years. What was the "popular view" verses the official edicts from the Caliphs? I'm sure the Caliphs simply ignored the situation, and whatever comments they made about the Jewish scriptures and Gospels were very mild and not too earth-shaking.
[Modulous]
What has this got to do with what I said?
We don't know what the average Muslim thought about the textual situation. The Caliphs and scholars would have had a simplified explanation.
quote:
[LNA]
Judah was always assumed to have existed in the 10th century in a way comparable to the Biblical description
[Modulous]
And Muslims on the whole concur with this.
Whatever their religion, what difference does their dates have on this discussion?
But Islam says the Hebrew Biblical texts weren't the original texts.
Now we have archaeology to show details that have forced certain questions.
Take the situation of Judah and the failure to find any mention till after the 2nd half of the 8th century BCE, despite endless Assyrian campaigns from c.850 on. Take the case of Assyrian king Adad Nirari III from 811 to 783. Here is an Assyrian text from 797 BCE. It covers an invasion to Palestine.
Notice how Judah isn't mentioned.
quote:
" As far as the shores of the great sea at the rising
of the sun, from the banks of the Euphrates, the
land of the Hittites, the land of the Amorites to its
farthest borders, the land of Tyre, the land of Sidon,
the land of Omri, the land of Edom, the land of the
Philistines {Palastn), as far as the shores of the great
sea at the setting of the sun (the Mediterranean), I
subjected (them all) to my yoke, tribute and gifts
I imposed upon them. Against the land of Syria I
marched ; Marih the king of the land of Syria I shut
up in Damascus his royal city. The terror of the
glory of Assur his lord overwhelmed him ; he took
my feet, he became a vassal : 2300 talents of silver,
20 talents of gold, 3000 talents of copper, 5000
talents of iron, many-coloured garments of linen, a
couch of ivory, a canopy of ivory, hilts in abundance,
his goods, his property to a countless amount I
received in Damascus his royal city, in the midst ot
his palace."
Edom is mentioned (despite the tiny size). Israel is mentioned as the "land of Omri". Where is Judah mentioned? Here is the best explanation A.H. Sayce could offer 100-150 years ago.
quote:
p.399
Samaria also was laid under
tribute, as well as Phoenicia, Edom, and the Phili-
stines. Among the latter the Jews were probably-
included.
Full text of "The "higher criticism" and the verdict of the monuments"
Now, the issue of Judah not existing was never dreamed of back then. But there is no mention of "Judah" or "Jews" (nor the all important Temple) till a few decades before 700 BCE. The 925 BCE invasion of Palestine by the founder of the Egyptian 22 Dynasty, failed to mention Jerusalem or any towns in Judah (there were some towns in Benjamin mentioned, but none from Judah unless I'm mistaken) though the Biblical text featured Jerusalem (with its tons of endlessly valuable gold) as the centerpiece of the invasion.
quote:
[LNA]
Their forceful theories on geographical and racial/tribal issues surely made their way around the globe.
[Modulous]
I'm pretty sure Pakistan, Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Palestine....already have a pretty practiced system of racial/tribal issues.
My point is that many diverse views would exist as to what the original texts say. The Nation of Islam is obsessed with white people (as American Jews appear to be) being imposters of the "chosen" black-skinned people (who came from Africa where the REAL Eden was), and that created an opening to question a lot of issues related to the original texts. The Islamic texts were seen as offering complatibility with their view.
quote:
[LNA]
Did the Jewish Solomon actually exist?
[Modulous]
Does it matter?
Well, Black Muslims in American think it does.
Palestinians seem to be interested in the issue.
Historians are interested.
Archaeologists are interested.
All the failures to find any mention of the Temple before 700 BCE have caught a lot of attention. Judah and Jerusalem and the Temple is an interesting issue. The lack of evidence has created some interesting views. Among the secular and the religious.
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