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Author Topic:   Is Watson conscious?
Tangle
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Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 16 of 42 (785043)
05-27-2016 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
05-27-2016 12:45 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Look for the power supply.
[sigh]
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

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 Message 15 by ringo, posted 05-27-2016 12:45 PM ringo has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 17 of 42 (785046)
05-27-2016 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tangle
05-27-2016 12:50 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Tangle writes:
Look for the power supply.
We all have a power supply.
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2016 12:50 PM Tangle has replied

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 18 of 42 (785048)
05-27-2016 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
05-27-2016 7:58 AM


Hi Jar,
Dr. Adequate's response was a very good one because the distinctions we assign to Watson's thought as opposed to our human thought will begin to sound marginal.
I once read that the difference is that humans have emotional content in the words we use, based on a life time of experiences. Computers simply assign a definition and blurts out an answer they feel is appropriate.
The word "Tree" or "Apple" to Watson would have him searching the internet and his memory and he will know the correct definition and every possible reference of those words in literature and song etc.. But a human will no doubt have meaning in that word that is based on true sensory and emotional content that both spontaneous and creative. this as of yet is not in Watson's program.
Edited by 1.61803, : *spelling

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 19 of 42 (785050)
05-27-2016 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ringo
05-27-2016 12:53 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
[deep sigh]
How far do you want to go with this?
Ultimately I'm going to say if it's soft, squidgy, wet and messy inside and tries to bite you when you open its lid, it's natural. Everything else is artificial so we know.
That definition will work for the remainder of my natural life. After that, it's going to get properly difficult.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 05-27-2016 12:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 05-27-2016 1:19 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 23 by xongsmith, posted 05-27-2016 1:54 PM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 42 (785054)
05-27-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tangle
05-27-2016 1:10 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Tangle writes:
How far do you want to go with this?
That's exactly the point. We're not talking about "natural" or "artificial". We're talking about consciousness, awareness, responsiveness, sentience. Is there any way to tell "natural" consciousness from "artificial" consciousness? What do "natural" and "artificial" even mean in the context of consciousness?"

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 Message 22 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2016 1:28 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 42 (785057)
05-27-2016 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by 1.61803
05-27-2016 12:58 PM


golden writes:
But a human will no doubt have meaning in that word that is based on true sensory and emotional content that both spontaneous and creative. this as of yet is not in Watson's program.
Isn't it?
Since Watson now has vision as well as hearing are they not sensory inputs?
I pulled sentience out as separate from consciousness since the question or "emotion" or "Feeling" is somewhat different.
I've know quite a few people who seem to lack feelings in certain circumstances yet I never doubted they were conscious.
There is also the question of whether or not Watson should be considered as alive but that I think should await a decision on consciousness.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 22 of 42 (785058)
05-27-2016 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
05-27-2016 1:19 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
ringo writes:
That's exactly the point. We're not talking about "natural" or "artificial".
Yes we are. If we didn't care whether there was a difference between ourselves (natural) and something that we make (artificial), we wouldn't be having the conversation.
We're talking about consciousness, awareness, responsiveness, sentience. Is there any way to tell "natural" consciousness from "artificial" consciousness?
Yes. We look inside the box.
What do "natural" and "artificial" even mean in the context of consciousness?"
No one knows. No one even knows what consciousness is. Next question.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 05-27-2016 1:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:03 PM Tangle has replied

  
xongsmith
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Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 23 of 42 (785066)
05-27-2016 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tangle
05-27-2016 1:10 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Tangle writes:
Ultimately I'm going to say if it's soft, squidgy, wet and messy inside and tries to bite you when you open its lid, it's natural. Everything else is artificial so we know.
That definition will work for the remainder of my natural life. After that, it's going to get properly difficult.
Ah, I see. So you are planning on getting "vastened", as described in Frederik Pohl's Heechee Saga books.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 24 of 42 (785067)
05-27-2016 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
05-27-2016 7:58 AM


Is IBM's Watson conscious?
No.
Is it aware, alert, responsive?
That depends on what you mean by those questions.
Is is sentient? Can it feel?
No.
Is sentience necessary to being conscious?
I think it is necessary.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 42 (785069)
05-27-2016 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by nwr
05-27-2016 2:01 PM


Is sentience necessary to being conscious?
I think it is necessary.
I'd put it the other way:
Consciousness is necessary to being sentient.
Sentience > Consciousness

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 26 of 42 (785073)
05-27-2016 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by xongsmith
05-27-2016 1:54 PM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
x writes:
Ah, I see. So you are planning on getting "vastened", as described in Frederik Pohl's Heechee Saga books.
Not consciously.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by xongsmith, posted 05-27-2016 1:54 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 27 of 42 (785075)
05-27-2016 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
05-27-2016 7:58 AM


There is a video on Big Think that I believe can shed some light on this. It is by one of the VPs of the Watson project at IBM.
He clearly states that Watson is not sentient.
In my opinion, Watson is an advanced machine with advanced parsing algorithms. But it is still merely an extension of standard AI technology. For Watson to be sentient, it would need to exhibit traits that are more akin to spontaneous interest in specific pieces of data or engaging in dialog with another sentient being. It can do neither of those things, despite the fact that it has the same audio/visual input capabilities of sentient being like humans.
With that being said, it is still a very impressive bit of technology. But ultimately, its capabilities are a reflection of the skill of those that created Watson versus Watson exhibiting personal development.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 42 (785087)
05-27-2016 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
05-27-2016 11:09 AM


Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
I wonder if Watson has any endorsements for President of the US?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 29 of 42 (785143)
05-28-2016 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by New Cat's Eye
05-27-2016 2:07 PM


Bit of definition
For the conversation to go anywhere we'll need some agreement on what words mean. For example, this:
Consciousness is necessary to being sentient.
Sentience > Consciousness
has left me a bit loss, since I'd consider sentience and consciousness to be synonyms.

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jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 42 (785145)
05-28-2016 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by caffeine
05-28-2016 9:33 AM


Re: Bit of definition
has left me a bit loss, since I'd consider sentience and consciousness to be synonyms.
Historically the two have been considered as separate, consciousness being the ability to be aware while sentience is the ability to feel. The former is more a matter of identifying and cataloging while the later is more a matter of making value judgements based on what is catalogued and identified.
There is a question often brought up in studies of whether it is possible to be aware of things and still not be conscious of them.
An example is that Watson can identify and catalogue which flavor ice cream sells the most but not which tastes best, which treatment regimen reports the least side effects but not which hurts less, which popular song gets played most but not which popular song sounds best.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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