Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,477 Year: 3,734/9,624 Month: 605/974 Week: 218/276 Day: 58/34 Hour: 1/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 472 of 1444 (785746)
06-09-2016 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Stile
05-30-2016 1:47 PM


Re: Free Will and determinism from my Christian perspective
All the evidence we have seems to fit this picture, and it's the simplest picture without adding unnecessary elements.
What evidence? How are you able to determine via observation exactly how 'free will' works? How do you test the effect of omniscience?
What I suspect is that people are comfortable with one or the other philosophical answer or one or more logical argument. But there is no evidence regarding any of this stuff.
ABE:
Observation suggests that we have at least the illusion of free will. So we might lean towards saying that free will exists. However, we don't have any way of simulating time machines, omniscient beings, all powerful OZ's or rocks too heavy for God to lift. So how are you concluding that the evidence is on one side or the other?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Stile, posted 05-30-2016 1:47 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 9:29 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 482 of 1444 (785905)
06-13-2016 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Stile
06-13-2016 9:29 AM


Re: Free Will and determinism from my Christian perspective
The evidence that no testing has ever produced someone (or something) that can predict the future in any meaningful way.
How does that address the question of whether omniscience and free will are incompatible? Omniscience apparently does not even exist.
How are you able to determine via observation exactly how 'free will' works?
I would think such an observation would be necessary if we are going to claim that we have evidence that free will exists.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 9:29 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 12:05 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 485 of 1444 (785918)
06-13-2016 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Stile
06-13-2016 12:05 PM


Re: Free Will and determinism from my Christian perspective
It addresses the question of having evidence that "fits the picture" for free will existing because no one can read the future.
Which is what we were talking about for that evidence.
I've requoted the paragraph that drew my initial comment.
I think the way Cat Sci is explaining free will (the present is a fundamental reality of how time works, and therefore no one... not even a God... can "see the future" without removing free will). Is the most likely candidate of how things actually work.
There is no evidence whatsoever that whatever we experience in terms of free will exists despite God's existence, because of God's existence, or because of God's non existence. All we have is an impression of free will and a dearth of evidence about the later.
I can only conclude that you mean evidence in a very loose sense. Namely that you know of facts that do not contradict your belief and that you are not aware of any that contradict it. The problem is that, the evidence is not contrary to the opposite conclusion either and thus it is not truly evidence in any strong sense.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 12:05 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 2:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 487 of 1444 (785931)
06-13-2016 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 486 by Stile
06-13-2016 2:35 PM


Re: Free Will and determinism from my Christian perspective
Even the part you quoted says "...most likely candidate..." in it.
Of course everything in a post is an opinion, but how do you calculate or estimate odds on something like this?
Ha ha... you sound very familiar... wait, what did I say to you just last post?
Which simply means that I don't disagree with one or more statements in your post.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 2:35 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 488 by Stile, posted 06-13-2016 3:20 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024