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Author Topic:   The Nonsense of Revelation 13 Economics
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5101
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 181 of 274 (767648)
08-31-2015 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Straightshot
08-31-2015 11:47 AM


Re: The little horn of Daniel 7:8
Ah well, we tried. Pearl's before swine, seeds cast on stony ground etc etc.

I doubt you'll be here long.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Straightshot, posted 08-31-2015 11:47 AM Straightshot has not yet responded

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 182 of 274 (767679)
08-31-2015 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Straightshot
08-31-2015 11:50 AM


Re: The little horn of Daniel 7:8
No Straightshot, you CAN'T do anything you want here. You have been asked by the moderation team to work on your posting style. It's not that difficult to use the quote features. Once in a while you use the correct reply button but you still reply to the wrong post many times. Long cut and pastes of Bible verses is not condusive to good communication with your audience.

Consider this a warning. Step up your game, listen to moderation or take a time out.

AdminAsgara


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Straightshot, posted 08-31-2015 11:50 AM Straightshot has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9994
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 183 of 274 (767700)
09-01-2015 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Straightshot
08-30-2015 7:55 PM


Re: The little horn of Daniel 7:8
I am using the "reply" button at the bottom right .... next to the "peeK" button

Please take this as help and not an trying to hurt you.

My guess is that you are using the reply button at the very bottom right of the entire page instead of using the reply button that is on the bottom of the message you want to reply to.

If you fix that you will get most of the frustrated people off of your back. Then if you figure out how to quote, you'll be in good shape.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 7:55 PM Straightshot has not yet responded

    
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 366 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 184 of 274 (767704)
09-01-2015 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by ringo
08-31-2015 12:15 PM


Re: The little horn of Daniel 7:8
You have been played out and released to swim in dark waters ringo
This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by ringo, posted 08-31-2015 12:15 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 185 of 274 (767763)
09-01-2015 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Straightshot
08-31-2015 10:18 AM


Re: The little horn of Daniel 7:8
I could ignore you .... but sometimes I like to play a fish out before I turn it loose

(See what I did there? It's called a quote square or quote source. Really easy to do. Visually separates the text to which I will respond. Easy to read and leaves no doubts as to what the response refers. You can even put an attribution in the quote like this

[qs=Asshole]I could ignore you .... but sometimes I like to play a fish out before I turn it loose[/qs]

displays like this

Asshole writes:

I could ignore you .... but sometimes I like to play a fish out before I turn it loose

Anyway, enough of this little tutorial from Use of Quotes for Assholes. My response follows.)

Petulant little child, Asshole. You're arguments are the ones being ignored, here. Notice how your entire effort at the topic has been wasted by your petulant doltishness from your Message 169.

I'm not on the hook for anything.

Except, maybe, getting on the bad side of AdminPhat, which is not a good think, so I'll stop.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Straightshot, posted 08-31-2015 10:18 AM Straightshot has not yet responded

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 472 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 186 of 274 (781531)
04-04-2016 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
10-09-2010 6:13 PM


Well since a monetary system involves buying and selling, it would have to involve that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 10-09-2010 6:13 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 187 of 274 (781547)
04-05-2016 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by starlite
04-04-2016 11:14 PM


Except of course for the fact that there is no mention of money.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Phat
Member
Posts: 9891
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 188 of 274 (781564)
04-05-2016 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
10-10-2010 4:23 PM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Phat writes:

Consider this scenario. A world overburdened by debt that it cant pay back agrees to a form of global bankruptcy. The ones who hold the debt (maybe even you or I, in our pension funds) lose out, and a new financial system is discussed. Perhaps this system is backed by humans as value. Each human who agreed to become part of the system would be given a debit value. Perhaps the debit value would be based on what the individual was promised before....for those of us who had pensions or money in investments, we would be given a debit value of, say, 200,000 units. Folks that were poor before would, of course, have to be given less of a debit value...otherwise the system would be unfair. A poor man in India, for example, may be given a debit value of 100 units. Under the new system, however, he could earn units at the same rate as a man in America could, provided he had the education and skills to justify his earnings. Only those who were tied in to this system could participate, for their pledge would be their work and value. Health care and welfare would be built into the system, though at vastly lowered economic rates and ratios. Caring for a dying poor man, for example, shouldn't be the responsibility of those with more units exclusively...every human in the system would be equally taxed for such care.
Those who refused to pledge their allegiance to this system would be unable to buy, sell, or participate in welfare and health care benefits.

Participation alone would be "the same mark". Either you were in or you were out.


jar writes:

Except of course for the fact that there is no mention of money.

Granted if we read what the Bible actually says there is no mention of money. The only hint we get is the "buy nor sell" thing. Just because the book doesn't say something never seems to stop people from making stuff up. If enough of us make up the same stories, and claim that God inspired us...who is to stop us from marketing it as truth? Its a book of stories anyway. Why not embellish a few?

Edited by Phat, : gotta change a setting


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 189 of 274 (781565)
04-05-2016 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:08 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Phat writes:

Granted if we read what the Bible actually says there is no mention of money. The only hint we get is the "buy nor sell" thing. Just because the book doesn't say something never seems to stop people from making stuff up. If enough of us make up the same stories, and claim that God inspired us...who is to stop us from marketing it as truth? Its a book of stories anyway. Why not embellish a few?

There is no problem there as long as it's clear that you are talking about YOUR fantasy and not the fantasy of John of Patmos who might also be a fantasy.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:08 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:19 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9891
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 190 of 274 (781567)
04-05-2016 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by jar
04-05-2016 10:13 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Keep in mind that when I say "embellish" I do not mean that im not speaking of at least a possible truth as I understand it. It can never be claimed as reality until and unless it happens. I dont plan on selling any books...

Add: I looked up "embellish".

verb
make (something) more attractive by the addition of decorative details or features.
"blue silk embellished with golden embroidery"
synonyms: decorate, adorn, ornament; More
make (a statement or story) more interesting or entertaining by adding extra details, especially ones that are not true.
"she had real difficulty telling the truth because she liked to embellish things"
synonyms: elaborate, embroider, expand on, exaggerate
"the legend was embellished in later retellings"

I want to make clear that im not consciously making up stuff that I dont feel has a good chance of happening. except that I just used the word "chance" which I also do not believe in. Drat

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 191 of 274 (781570)
04-05-2016 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:19 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Back to the topic and thread.

Phat writes:

Keep in mind that when I say "embellish" I do not mean that im not speaking of at least a possible truth as I understand it.

But the sub-forum is the Bible, Accuracy and Inerrancy and a thread about the economics as described in Revelation 13.

Fantasies created externally to what is actually written may be interesting but have nothing to do with what is actually written in the fantasy known as The Book of Revelation.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:19 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9891
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 192 of 274 (781571)
04-05-2016 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
04-05-2016 10:29 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
sidenote: I edited my prior post.

How do we define how accurate the Bible is if we not only acknowledge that Revelation could be a fantasy itself but that we agree that anyone can make the book say what they intend for it to say? Am I to leave the book alone strictly as written? Can I not be allowed to have any opinions,ideas...dare I say prophecies about what it actually means?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 04-05-2016 10:29 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by jar, posted 04-05-2016 10:49 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 194 by PaulK, posted 04-05-2016 12:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 193 of 274 (781573)
04-05-2016 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:32 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Phat writes:

Can I not be allowed to have any opinions,ideas...dare I say prophecies about what it actually means?

Sure, you can have any fantasies you like but you cannot claim the book says anything but what the book says.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:32 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13228
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 194 of 274 (781577)
04-05-2016 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:32 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
quote:

How do we define how accurate the Bible is if we not only acknowledge that Revelation could be a fantasy itself but that we agree that anyone can make the book say what they intend for it to say? Am I to leave the book alone strictly as written? Can I not be allowed to have any opinions,ideas...dare I say prophecies about what it actually means?

Just consider what the Revelation says about that...

Revelation 22:18-19 writes:


I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book;
if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book

I guess you can speculate about what it might mean, but sticking to the text it doesn't really mention big economic changes, other than restricting trade to those who accept the Mark.


This message is a reply to:
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Hawkins
Member (Idle past 132 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 195 of 274 (786415)
06-21-2016 4:09 PM


By the assumption that God exists, you need to first identity His intention for the making use of prophecies, instead of purely base your conclusion from a human perspective. On the other hand, under the assumption that God doesn't exist, you don't even need to bother with prophecies.

In Christianity, a prophecy is more like a time trick, to get the attention to have a message content confirmed. Roughly speaking, it is for God to confirm His messages to His believers, and believers only. As for non-believers the prerequisite criteria is for them to deliver their faith first before they can get to a confirmation. This is so because by the Covenant one needs faith to be saved. A confirmation comes before the delivery of your faith could simply mean that you cannot be saved.

So the end effect of a prophecy is to confirm with the believers but doesn't need to make any sense to the non-believers.

Matthew 25:29 (NIV)
For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.


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