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Author Topic:   Critique of AIG on the Grand Canyon
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 7 of 46 (787245)
07-08-2016 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Faith
07-07-2016 9:20 PM


Re: Straw man Flood geology
This is true, but the sad fact is that the theories they came up with to demonstrate the Flood were pathetically unbiblical.
It has been pointed out to you --- repeatedly, with supporting quotations --- that the excuses early flood geologists had for the geological record are exactly the same as those that modern flood geologists put forward for the geological record. So please stop repeating this fatuous untruth.
In fact they didn't "discover" anything, because it's all merely interpretation that can't be proven: they merely imagined the Old Earth into existence. Hutton made up a scenario to explain Siccar Point that would require such long ages ...
Again, it has been pointed out to you, with extensive quotations, that the existence of Siccar Point was a prediction of Hutton's: he knew that something like that must exist and went looking for it.
---
I understand why you have to be wrong, it's that or give up on creationism, but could you at least contrive to be wrong about something new?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Faith, posted 07-07-2016 9:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 1:17 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 11 of 46 (787265)
07-08-2016 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
07-08-2016 1:17 AM


Re: Straw man Flood geology
How you get away with your empty stuff is beyond me but over and over all you do is make unsubstantiated accusations. Stop pretending you've told me this or that as if you'd proved something, because when I've challenged you it becomes clear you are inventing stuff ...
Can you please give us a link to an instance where I've claimed to have told you stuff but it turned out I had not? Thank you.
You owe the reader at least a link to the discussion you claim occurred but you NEVER give one unless pushed.
I will always supply one if asked politely. But I don't see why by default I should have to behave as though you are suffering from amnesia. If you are repeatedly presented with unequivocal evidence that you are wrong, at some point it becomes your responsibility to remember that.
ABE: He was very familiar with the geology of Scotland, remembered seeing Siccar Point before and THEN went looking for it again because it illustrated his theory. Of course he GOT the theory from seeing it before anyway.
Do you have any sort of evidence for this, or did you make it up?
If you look along the coast above Siccar Point, following drawings made by Lyell, you can see that this angular unconformity continues for some distance and was formed by the buckling of the lower strata beneath the upper horizontal strata. What would cause such even buckling but the resistance of the strata above? If the sections were in fact separated in time, when the upper were deposited why didn't they just fill in the spaces between the buckled segments? Why weren't the upper curves of those segments eroded away there as supposedly they were at Siccar Point?
If this is meant to convey some sort of mental picture, it is not doing so. Could you maybe present it as an actual picture?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 1:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 3:01 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 20 of 46 (787278)
07-08-2016 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
07-08-2016 3:01 PM


Finding Siccar Point
Can't find post where I successfully challenged one of your accusations along these lines.
Of course not.
Turns out Lyell's drawing doesn't prove what I thought it proved so I withdraw that statement.
OK.
I have to find the book about Hutton to check my memory about how he arrived at Siccar Point for his argument.
Hutton's Theory of the Earth is available on line.
Though the boundary between the two things here in question be easily perceivable from the nature of the country at the first inspection, by the rising of the hills, yet this does not lead one precisely to the junction; and in the extensive common boundary of those two things, the junction itself is only to be perceived in few places, where the rock is washed bare by the rivers or the sea, and where this junction is exposed naked to our view. The sea is here wearing away the coast; and the bank, about 200 feet high, is gradually falling down, making in some places a steep declivity, in others a perpendicular cliff. St Abb's Head and Fast Castle are head lands projecting into the sea, and are the bulwarks of this shore, which is embayed to the westward, where the sea preys upon the horizontal strata. The solid strata are every where exposed either in the cliff or on the shore; we were therefore certain of meeting with the junction in going from Dunglass to Fast Castle, which is upon the schistus. But this journey can only be made by sea ...
The line of this junction running, on the one hand, towards Fast Castle eastward, and, on the other, towards the head of Dunglass burn westward, our business was to pursue this object in those two different directions. But it was chiefly in the sea coast that was placed our expectations, having recollection of the great banks of gravel under which the strata are buried about Oldhamstocks, near which, from all appearances, the junction was to be expected.
Having taken boat at Dunglass burn, we set out to explore the coast; and, we observed the horizontal sand-stone turn up near the Pease burn, lifting towards the schistus. We found the junction of that schistus with the red sand-stone and marly strata on the shore and sea bank, at St. Helens, corresponding in general with what we had observed in the burns to the westward. But, at Siccar Point, we found a beautiful picture of this junction washed bare by the sea.
And here is a second account by James Playfair, another of the three people who went to Siccar Point that day:
We sailed in a boat from Dunglass, on a day when the fineness of the weather permitted us to keep close to the foot of the rocks which line the shore in that quarter, directing our course southwards, in search of the termination of the secondary strata. We made for a high rocky point or head-land, the SICCAR, near which, from our observations on shore, we knew that the object we were in search of was likely to be discovered ...
Here, therefore, the immediate contact of the two rocks is not only visible, but is curiously dissected and laid open by the action of the waves. The rugged tops of the schistus are seen penetrating into the horizontal beds of sandstone, and the lowest of these last form a breccia containing fragments of schistus, some round and others angular, united by an arenaceous cement.
DR HUTTON was highly pleased with appearances that set in so clear a light the different formations of the parts which compose the exterior crust of the earth, and where all the circumstances were combined that could render the observation satisfactory and precise.
You got that? He was looking for places where the junction was visible; he knew approximately where they would be found; he found one at Siccar point, because he was looking for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 3:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 21 of 46 (787279)
07-08-2016 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
07-08-2016 3:52 PM


Re: Straw man Flood geology
Again, the "evidence" led them away from their ridiculous straw man versions of the Flood, not from the actual Flood. If they'd seen the fossils for what they are, and the strata as ALL formed by a worldwide depth of water ...
They did see the strata that way. You have been informed of this. Repeatedly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 3:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 9:37 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 25 of 46 (787287)
07-08-2016 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
07-08-2016 9:37 PM


Re: Straw man Flood geology
Then they had no reason to give it up.
And yet they did. Maybe ... maybe as a result of actually studying geology, they learned something that you don't know.
This constant refrain has turned out not to be true too many times so I pay no attention to it.
If it has turned out to be untrue "many times", why are you not able, when challenged, to produce a single instance of this?
Could it be because you're making shit up? Don't make shit up, Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 9:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 10:03 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 27 of 46 (787289)
07-09-2016 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Faith
07-08-2016 10:03 PM


Re: Straw man Flood geology
In other words they fell for the nonsensical explanations of slabs of rocks as representing long periods of time.
Those are indeed other words, but then so is "Hello Mr. Giraffehead, will you fondly smoke my incontinent butter?" Perhaps precis is not one of your gifts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 07-08-2016 10:03 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 46 of 46 (787585)
07-18-2016 2:20 PM


It's got the usual annoying anti-creationist canards (such as that creationists are anti-science, instead of that the historical sciences are inevitably untrustworthy) ...
"It's got the usual annoying anti-Klan canards (such as that Klansmen are racist, instead of that the Negroes are inevitably untrustworthy) ..."

  
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