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Author | Topic: The Great Creationist Fossil Failure | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
The geology professionals are busy doing geology just like the aviation professionals are busy doing aviation. They don't have much interest in dumbing down their expertise for you just so you can tell them they're wrong.
... unlike the expertise required to fly a 747, one would think the geology professionals would want the average person to have access to such basic data.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: ...one would think the geology professionals would want the average person to have access to such basic data. The average person has total and full access. School text books are available at every level of interest, there are public museums everywhere, you can walk into a university library and pick up a book, there's loads of 101 stuff on the web. But if you want to debate with professionals, you have to learn like the professionals. Your problem is that you're trying to argue from ignorance about stuff that has been studied for literally millions of man-years by professionals. You can't take on geology, molecular biology, evolutionary biology, nuclear physics, dendrochronology, palaeontology from your armchair without a single qualification to your name - then complain that you don't understand it but it's all wrong anyway. I'm lost in wonder at the hubris of it. Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Science is regularly presented to the public. No reason whatever that the fossil record wouldn't be also, at least comprehensive digests of the whole panorama of information rather than the bits and pieces we usually get.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
It's nice to know all that information is available, as I thought it ought to be, but unfortunately it's not exactly layman-friendly. To make use of it to study the claims of the fossil record would require a lot of translation of terms for starters. There are probably dictionaries online too. I'd guess.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm not in the slightest interested in "taking on" the details of all science. I have a few issues that interest me, and in this case it would be very helpful to have a larger overview of the whole range of fossils discovered and their locations and so on than is usually presented to the public. I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own that you apparently don't grasp.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: . I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own that you apparently don't grasp. Your agenda is in plain sight and is extremely easy to grasp. Your problem is that your agenda isn't science's agenda. Science is not going to bend to your personal requirements. If you want to understand it, you have to make the effort. Complaints that you can't, but that you're right anyway, are rather laughable don't you think?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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edge Member (Idle past 1734 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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I'm not in the slightest interested in "taking on" the details of all science.
Well, then you've got a problem. The thing about all of that information out there is that you have to want to access it and understand it. Casually dismissing it is not the way to gain an understanding. It is the nature of an advanced science to have generated huge amounts of information. It cannot all be presented to the general public, but textbooks, science publications and universities are glad to help.
I have a few issues that interest me, and in this case it would be very helpful to have a larger overview of the whole range of fossils discovered and their locations and so on than is usually presented to the public.
Well, we can't do that here, even though we have tried to some degree to help.
I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in ...
Right. I'm sure you would know how to create a curriculum of geological courses.
... but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own ...
No kidding ...
... that you apparently don't grasp.
Yep, it's all us. Nothing to do with your presentation. Nothing to do with your admitted and willful ignorance. And it's our problem... Sorry, Faith, but a little humility would do you a world of good.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: I'm not in the slightest interested in "taking on" the details of all science And that is why you will continue to be willfully ignorant when it comes to science, geology, anthropology, physics, history and reality.
Faith writes: I know you would like to define for me what I SHOULD be interested in but oddly enough I do have an agenda of my own that you apparently don't grasp. Oh, we all grasp your agenda. Dogma over facts. It seems you can add "the Bible" to the list of things where you have not the slightest interested in taking on the details.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You are requiring of me far more than is expected of a scientist in any particular field.
Also you obviously have no idea of my agenda, why I prefer particular arguments over others.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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You are requiring of me far more than is expected of a scientist in any particular field. It might well be reasonable for a biologist not to study genetics, for example, if he is not going to expound on traits are formed. But if he wanted to discuss an evolution topic that touched on genetics, we would certainly expect him to make some study of the topics. But as long as he is 'staying in his lane' no one expects a scientist to know everything. If a biologist were to give us some bad info and then tell us that he was not interested in a related topic that contradicted him, then he'd get the some treatment you get here. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That is an unfair requirement when the point is a very limited point that does not require extensive knowledge of a whole field. But of course unnecessary and extravagant requirements serve the goal of defeating the creationist by hook or by crook.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, no, I am not requiring anything of you I would not expect from anyone that is honest, scientist or layman.
Faith writes: Also you obviously have no idea of my agenda, why I prefer particular arguments over others. Of course I and most everyone else is fully aware of your agenda; you want to try to explain away the obvious factual errors found throughout the Bible stories. Unfortunately that is impossible and no one has ever been able to provide ANY flood model that explains the actual evidence. Oh, the apologists can make shit up and the Christian Cult of Ignorance will swallow their nonsense, but all they have is still just nonsense.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
As a creationist, comprehensive information is not your friend. The deeper you dig, the harder it is to get out of the hole. Science is regularly presented to the public. No reason whatever that the fossil record wouldn't be also, at least comprehensive digests of the whole panorama of information rather than the bits and pieces we usually get. And the bizarre irony of it is you complaining that the information that will sink your boat is not accessible enough.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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That is an unfair requirement when the point is a very limited point that does not require extensive knowledge of a whole field. I'm puzzled now, Faith, because didn't you ask for a list of ALL THE FOSSILS?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I would like to be able to see how the claim of the fossil order holds up across all the evidence, not particularly for the sake of my own arguments, however. I'm glad to know the information is out there, but I don't think I'll be able to sort through it to answer my questions.
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