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Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined:
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quote: Your sentiments are like those of the Psalmist in Psalm 8. He is dwarfed into seeming insignificance when he considers the size and majesty of the cosmos.
" When I see Your heaven, the works of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which you have ordained, What is mortal man, that You remember him? And the son of man that You visit him? " (Psa. 8:3,4) But on the contrary, it is FOR man that God created the universe. And man is needed for God to fulfill His eternal purpose to dispense Himself into a living vessel to be manifested through that corporate living vessel. This passage in Isaiah shows that the God who made the physical universe looks to humanity to be a "place" in which God can dwell as His living "house".
" Thus says Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, And the earth the footstool for My feet, Where is then the house that you will build for Me, And where is the place of My rest? For all these things My hand has made, And all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah, BUT ... to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at Me word." (Isa. 66:1,2) This kind of man is ultimately the Son of God, Jesus Christ. That is the Man mingled with God, God incarnate as a man to be our Lord and Savior. We may be dwarfed into feeling insignificant by the heavens and the earth and all the things created by God. But God looks to be united with man. God, the Invisible One, looks to become "organically" incorporated into humanity. And this great divine enterprise begins with the creation of the universe. And this enterprise continues with the manifestation of the Man, poor in spirit (meaning humble before the Father and not proud) vested with such glory and authority because God dwells in Him and is one with Him. This One is the prototype and the standard model of God's great enterprise - to unite with humanity that God and man may be one. He looks to humanity for this "house". Christ is the cornerstone of this house of God. So I want you to realize that because of this eternal plan of God He CREATED the creation. It is for this purpose He created the mind blowing universe as a stage upon which this great drama is played. That is the uniting of the invisible Divine Being with the created human being, for His expression and our enjoyment forever. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jaywill writes: Just out of curiosity,, wouldn't this same grace be available to the Apostles also? After all, they met the man in person while Paul only heard the voice. He labored (worked) more abundantly than even the twelve apostles. Yet it was not due to him. The grace of God that was with him empowered him.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
quote: Of course the very same grace was with the twelve apostles apostles. And He as grace is with ALL the believers. Look again. Paul does not say he ALONE labored. He only says he labored MORE. He says the same empowering was working in Peter too.
"For He who operated in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcision operated also in me for the Gentiles." (Gal. 2:8) The same operating Holy Spirit was living and working in both "pioneers" in the Christian life. That operating One is living in every Christian. I don't mean to suggest we all have the exact same measure of labor to carry out. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
No part of an egg is an egg. No part of a dozen is a dozen. Take a number line stretching to infinity both directions...divide it into 3 parts....is each part infinite also? No part of a god is a god. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I've used the same analogy myself. The two end parts are still infinite on one end. The middle part is finite; which part of the Trinity is that?
Take a number line stretching to infinity both directions...divide it into 3 parts....is each part infinite also?
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
how can 1/3 of infinity be finite?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You said a number line. Draw the line. You can only divide it at finite places. You can't have three infinite pieces when you only have two infinite ends. how can 1/3 of infinity be finite? A concept like infinity is not going to be of much help in describing voodoo like the Trinity.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
quote:Thus I'll drop the analogy. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Spinoza was wrong. You can divide infinity. Draw the line:
Thus I'll drop the analogy.<-------------|---------------|--------------->
Infinite at both ends, divided into three parts. The end parts are infinite on one end each; the middle part is finite. Reality does mess up the analogy to the Trinity - but maybe you should keep the reality and drop the Trinity.
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ok...here is another analogy. Take an infinite bucket with an infinite number of balls in it. Pour them out. Are they divisible into more than one pile?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The balls are already finite. Only the number of balls is infinite. Of course you can make any number of separate piles of balls. I suppose you could make an "infinite" pile by constantly adding more balls from the bottomless bucket.
Take an infinite bucket with an infinite number of balls in it. Pour them out. Are they divisible into more than one pile?
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: The Gathas of Zoroaster are at least 3000 years old. Notice that there is very much a prominent Holy Spirit aspect of the one God, in the worlds oldest monotheistic religion. The term "father" is indeed used. (the idea of God incarnated in the womb of a female is not there though)
quote: The Holy Spirit and the "father" aspect are indeed mentioned (though it must be admitted that the father aspect of Mazda isn't as strong of a parallel with Christianity as the Spenta Mainyu is with the Holy Spirit) The incarnated son isn't in Zoroastrianism (at least not in the Gathas which are easily said to be no later than the 10th century BCE) But, the 3rd century BCE Indian king Asouka wrote his edicts in Aramaic and Greek and sent missionaries all the way to Palestine and beyond. His vegetarian views are quite prominent among the early Jewish Christians like James (though admittedly he isn't held in high regard by Christians today) and even a large number of Greek-Roman Christians (who are held in high regard to say the least). The idea of an incarnation of God was understandable considering the well known (to historians) influences of the Persians and their close Vedic relatives ( I think the Indians should be seen as important influences of the Classical Greek world too). Krishna was known to the western world for sure, as numerous archaeological discoveries and texts show. Along with the Avatar issues is a better known and related issue. Kings were already calling themselves divine. The "king of kings" concept was already existing and it came from Persia and the term was inscribed on coins (in Aramaic!) before the time of Jesus. The Persians controlled Jerusalem until 37 BCE (the year of the birth of Herod in the Matthew 2 story whiich includes the Magi - Zoroastrian priests.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
New Birth or Rebirth?: Jesus Talks with Krishna - Ravi Zacharias - Google Books
New Birth or Rebirth?: Jesus Talks with KrishnaBy Ravi Zacharias Here is a fundi admitting that there was an incarnation of God (in all his forms) before the time of Jesus, it seems.
quote: Interesting. I was going to hunt for specific scripture, but this co-author of the famous Kingdom of the Cults book has done a good job of interpreting it (partly anyway).
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
This is off topic. Please stop these types of posts or I shall suspend you.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2423 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
It is on topic.
See the comments of jaywill and post #191. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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