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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Right, I've seen the map and I think that you are obviously misreading something. The western coast seems to be under water but that does not stretch far enough east to cover the Colorado Plateau. While the Chinle formation covers part of Nevada, it would be in the Eastern part of the state (probably only the Southeast) and I can't see the sea reaching much past the western border of that state from the superimposed map of modern North America.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
The same maps and moe information can be found
here While the Sundance Sea does cover the area in the Jurassic, the Sundance formation is well above the Chinle. Not surprisingly marine fossils are found in the Sundance formation. I still see no sign of a genuine contradiction here. If anyone else wishes to look at the maps they can find them in the pdf linked above.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I certainly hope others may come along who can interpret the maps better than you do.
You don't seem to grasp that the states in which the Chinle Formation is found are all mostly west of the Rockies, and the Rockies are that band of volcanoes in the maps in the book. Here's a map showing the location of the Rockies today:
Here's the Wikipedia quote about the Chinle Formation again:
The Chinle Formation is an Upper Triassic continental geologic formation of fluvial, lacustrine, and palustrine to eolian deposits spread across the U.S. states of Nevada, Utah, northern Arizona, western New Mexico, and western Colorado. All these are west of the Rockies, with the last two partially in the Rockies. Which doesn't help the situation since while deep ocean makes the west unlivable, active volcanoes make the mountains unlivable during this time period. The Wikipedia quote goes on to say that a formation east of the Rockies is sometimes included as part of the Chinle Formation, and in the Triassic Period that area is dry land and not under water. However, the west IS under water and there are lots of dinosaur fossils there. So there is definitely a contradiction between the interpretation of a landscape with dinosaurs in that area and the paleogeographic interpretation of deep ocean covering it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Far be it from me to expect to "demonstrate" anything to anyone here. But it's an OBSERVATION of mine that NOTHING happened between the layers EVER, and I've spent a lot of time arguing that quite well in my opinion. For good reason. Anything sediment between the layers would have lithified. What you are supposed to be demonstrating is that there was never any soil on top of any layers. And you have utterly failed to offer any reason, evidence, or argument for such a thing. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Pollux Member Posts: 303 Joined:
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Let's look at some numerical support for the geological time scale.
In the oceans, particularly in the Pacific, there are chains of sea mounts and islands. The radiometric dates for these chains increase virtually linearly as you go from one end to the other.The best known one is the Hawaiian -Emperor sea mount chain extending northwest from Hawaii. At least 40 have been dated ranging up to 81 million years, with of course at the Hawaiian end you have the current volcanoes, and a new one under sea S-E of Hawaii. The volume of the volcanic products in the chain is 750,000 cubic km.The R-M dates are what you would expect for the current rate of movement of the Pacific plate over the hawaiian hot spot. These chains present at least two problems for YEC.1. Why do these dates look exactly as you would expect given current nuclear physics and the observed rate of plate movement? 2. How could the chain be formed around the time of the Flood with the extreme rate of plate movement and of volcanism required? The H-E chain alone represents at least 30,000 Krakatoas. |
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: All these are west of the Rockies, with the last two partially in the Rockies. Which doesn't help the situation since while deep ocean makes the west unlivable, active volcanoes make the mountains unlivable during this time period. More utter nonsense Faith. Active volcanoes do not make mountains unlivable and believe it or not there is life in seas and even on islands in seas. There are even life forms today that live on volcanoes as well as in mountain chains where there are active volcanoes. But WAIT... There's more. Guess what? Very few dinosaur fossils have ever been found in California. There have been some Duck-billed dinosaurs and a few Raptors and all of those dated to around the time the Sierra Nevadas were forming and parts of what now is California were not under seas. Remember Faith, when we are talking about dinosaurs we are talking about fairly long periods of history, over 200 million years and during that period of time things including landmasses did change. Some areas that were once under water became dry land. Edited by jar, : appalin spallinMy Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios
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14174dm Member (Idle past 1130 days) Posts: 161 From: Cincinnati OH Joined:
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From your quote of Wikipedia on Chinle formation-
Chinle Formation is an Upper Triassic continental geologic formation of fluvial, lacustrine, and palustrine to eolian deposits.... Also from Wikipedia
Fluvial is a term used in geography and geology to refer to the processes associated with rivers and streams and the deposits and landforms created by them. Lacustrine deposits are sedimentary rock formations which formed in the bottom of ancient lakes. Aeolian processes, also spelled eolian or olian, pertain to wind activity in the study of geology and weather and specifically to the wind's ability to shape the surface of the Earth.... Palustrine is define by Wiktionary
Of, pertaining to, or thriving in marshy habitats. So the people who have studied the geology found evidence of streams and floodplains, marshes, lakes, as well as deserts. Did you even read the Stratigraphy section further down the Chinle Formation Wikipedia page? The Chinle Formation is more complicated than your flat layers of continuous strata. If you want to convince anyone of errors in geology, you should start by arguing specific points. For example, I typed in the name for just one member of the Chinle Formation, the Shinarump Member which Wikipedia describes as Shinarump is a braided-river system channel-deposit facies. I found a conference guide book for attendees to go look for themselves what other geologist found. I would think that if someone is lying about geology, they wouldn't want to draw attention to the actual rocks in the field. Some quotes from this document don't fit your idea of flat strata. http://nmgs.nmt.edu/...debooks/downloads/9/9_p0095_p0097.pdf Under Distribution
In many areas the Shinarump is absent locally as a result of nondeposition where the pre-existing land surface was topographically high. In these areas the advancing sheet of Shinarump sediments appears to have lapped against, and to have been deposited around, residual hills of the Moenkopi formation. Under Thickness, the Shinarump is described as varying from non-existent to over 350 ft thick. The variation in thickness is due to the roughness of the rock below. The primary control of the thickness was the relief of the erosion surface on which it was deposited. The whole section on Basal Contact describes evidence of stream channels. Under Lithology, Conglomerate describes finding pebbles and cobbles. If your Flood is transporting unconsolidated sediment, how did it move pebbles and cobbles without eroding away all the unconsolidated silt & mud? If you think the science of geology is wrong, point out specific examples. The current back & forth is going nowhere.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: An unwillingness to admit an obvious error does not make you right.
quote: Unfortunately for you, the volcanoes are not the Rocky Mountains as the map makes quite clear. The superimposed outline of the modern continent shows that they run along the California coast. They are also to the West of the Sundance sea which certainly did cover at least part of the area of the Chinle formation as I said.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
And remember, what I want to know is the official explanation of how a landscape forms ON TOP OF A STRATUM, then how it comes to disappear so that all we have next is another stratum of sediment. The official explanation is that it doesn't disappear, and that it is the other stratum of sediment. That's why there's another stratum of sediment. This is not rocket science. How many times do you need this explaining to you, Faith? You have been told this over and over and over.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry, I still don't get what you are trying to say. I also don't care.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If I saw an error I'd admit it, so obviously I don't see an error. Do you ever consider such a possibility or is it so important to you to accuse me of moral faults that just never enters your mind?
What YOU don't get is that that is NOT the California coast as we know it today. California had not been built up, there really wasn't much of California or the west coast at all yet, it WAS under deep ocean. All the states today to which the Chinle Formation belongs were UNDER WATER. However, as I see on the next page the volcanoes appear to be more to the west of the Rockies than in the Rockies. Which doesn't help matters anyway: there is still no place for the dinosaurs, whether because of deep water or volcanoes. All this is going on during the shifting of the continents after the break-up of Pangaea. (And most likely the last phases of the Flood.) Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm not discussing the Flood, I'm discussing the geological claims. The flat strata are evident in the picture I posted. The supposed fluvial contents of the rock are the usual interpretations based on the rock, which I am not addressing. What I am addressing is that the whole Chinle Formation, which is dated to the Triassic period, appears to have been under water according to the pages on Paleogeography in the textbook I'm using. That's all I'm talking about. The members of the formation are not relevant at this point, their thickness or anything else about them, nor are the fluvial contents of the rocks. And I haven't accused anyone of lying, just somehow not having put together two separate geological studies that turn out to contradict each other as far as I can tell from the presentations in this book.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The soil is completely fictional. There is no evidence for it. The actual evidence is the flat straight contact lines between strata as seen in photo after photo after photo.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Then you are misunderstanding. The outline of the modern continent shows the California coastline as it exists today. So the locatiion of the volcanoes corresponds to the modern California coastline and not the location of the Rocky Mountains. The whole point is to relate the Triassic geography to the modern. It would be more fair to accuse you of missing differences between Triassic and modern geography because the Rocky Mountains did not exist in the Triassic.
quote: If they were where you thought they were, they'd be underwater NOW.
quote: I guess that mistaking the Sierra Nevada for the Rockies is a slight improvement. But it is still a mistake. Faith, the outline of the modern continent is there to help you with precisely this sort of question. Why are you refusing to use it ?
quote: And that is also ridiculous. There are people living close to volcanoes today and the "deep water" is just your geographical blunder as anyone who actually looks at the maps can see.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All these are west of the Rockies, with the last two partially in the Rockies. Which doesn't help the situation since while deep ocean makes the west unlivable, active volcanoes make the mountains unlivable during this time period. More utter nonsense Faith. Active volcanoes do not make mountains unlivable and believe it or not there is life in seas and even on islands in seas. There are even life forms today that live on volcanoes as well as in mountain chains where there are active volcanoes. The nonsense is in your head. The map shows clearly where the states are in relation to the Rockies. The dinosaurs found in the fossil beds of the Chinle formation did not live under water, and that many volcanoes would surely make that locale unlivable for anything. Perhaps you'd like to move to a place that has a dozen active volcanoes.
But WAIT... There's more. Guess what? Very few dinosaur fossils have ever been found in California. There have been some Duck-billed dinosaurs and a few Raptors and all of those dated to around the time the Sierra Nevadas were forming and parts of what now is California were not under seas. Yes the dinosaur beds are not in California. That's because there was no California during the time period we are discussing. The description of the Chinle formation does not mention California for that reason, only those six states that are clearly to the west of the Rockies according to that map. According to the paleogeographic maps that whole area was "deep ocean" no matter what you prefer to believe about it.
Remember Faith, when we are talking about dinosaurs we are talking about fairly long periods of history, over 200 million years and during that period of time things including landmasses did change. Some areas that were once under water became dry land. According to the maps the entire area west of the Rockies was under deep ocean water throughout the entire Mesozoic era, through the Triassic, the Jurassic and the Cretaceous periods. East of the Rockies the epeiric seas transgressed and regressed but there was water present in the middle of the continent throughout the Jurassic and Cretaceous. The source of this information is a respected textbook on historical geology. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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