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Author | Topic: What is a True Christian? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes: Survival Of The Fittest certainly never involved voluntary submission to others, now did it? Sure it did. Survival of the fittest is about reproduction, not fighting to the death. Submission is often a part of reproduction. Turning the other cheek and loving thy neighbour (with or without reproduction) do make our society - and humanity by extension - more fit for survival. “If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT (see context here) “The endearing controvertist! One needs to become acute in the ploys of his kind.” -- ThreeDogs
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
When Paul told Timothy that "all scripture is given by inspiration of God" do you think he meant the letters that he was going to write next week?
Definition writes:the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
His next question should be, "How are you defining scripture?" As you seem to understand, Paul was probably referring primarily to the Old Testament (and probably some non-canonical books) but not anything that he had written. If Paul tells Timothy that scripture is inspired by God, what would you expect Timothys next questions to be?A) Paul, do I believe everything you say or write? How do I test for integrity? B) I have no questions. Paul tells me its from God, I believe Paul. C) Do I believe what I feel or should I look for evidence? Of course Timothy and you should test what Paul wrote for integrity and look for evidence. You should always look for evidence.
Phat writes:
If an apple can hit me on the head, I'll wait for it to happen. I'm not going to believe that an apple has hit me until it does. My only question to you is this: Will you ever believe or will you wait until an apple hits you on the head? But your point of view seems to be that apples can't fall - i.e. there can't be evidence. In that case, why should I believe what you believe? Why not the Hindu gods or the native American gods?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Because Paul was human.
Why would Timothy even think of testing Paul's integrity? Phat writes:
If you mean homeless people, of course I don't. They're not trying to sell me anything, so integrity doesn't enter into it. If you mean business people, of course I do. It's buyer beware, isn't it?
Do you test the integrity of those whom you hand money to? Phat writes:
Yes, I have friends who - to put it politely - you can't believe everything they say. In some cases they're joking; in some cases they may be deluding themselves; in some cases they may be trying to delude me. So yes, I have to test what they say.
Do you have any close friends whom you regularly test for integrity?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What kind of family rejects somebody who wants to be a member?
Just because someone claims a name does not make them part of a family.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
One of the primary differences is that a club can revoke your membership; a family can not. Your father is always your father, whether he "disowns" you or not.
What is the difference between a club and a family? Phat writes:
Clubs and families both have rules. Both may or may not enforce all of the rules strictly. The difference lies in the permanence of the enforcement (see above).
Is a child in a family expected to follow or adhere to the belief of his/her parents or are they just as accepted for being the contrarian...the rebel? Phat writes:
A father would take those factors into account. (If they didn't, there wouldn't be a preponderance of "difficult" children waiting to be adopted.) In a club, any of those factors might be grounds for rejecting an application. Were the father adopting children, would or should he care what culture they were from? Whether they had been in prison or not? Whether they were honest or not? If they were mentally challenged and had special needs which may require more of his time and money? So, is Christianity a family or a club?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
As I asked Phat: Do you actually think Paul was talking about his own writings? The epistles that he hadn't even written yet?
Do you actually think Paul would have called anything other than scripture itself "God breathed" or "inspired" -- which means breathed by the Holy Spirit?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
kbertsche writes:
Yes, 2 Peter calls Paul's epistles "scriptures" - i.e. writings. What else would they be called? But 2 Peter doesn't explicitly call Paul's epistles "inspired by God", does it? My question isn't whether the early church considered Paul's writings inspired. It's whether Paul himself considered them inspired when he wrote to Timothy.
But according to 2 Peter, Paul's writings were also considered by the early church to be Scripture:
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What means are you using?
Of course we had no reporter on the scene, camera and mic in hand...so we must use other ways to judge Pauls integrity and mental stability.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
kbertsche writes:
I don't see how the early church has any relevance to what I asked. There were already disputes in the early church about what was canonical. So yes, the early church seems to have viewed Paul's writings as divinely inspired, just like they did the OT. What I asked was whether PAUL thought HIS OWN writings were inspired (before he wrote them). Another way of asking would be, "How full of himself was he?"
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