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Author Topic:   What is a True Christian?
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 241 of 329 (448632)
01-14-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
01-14-2008 11:26 AM


Re: Doing The Best We Can
Phat writes:
Survival Of The Fittest certainly never involved voluntary submission to others, now did it?
Sure it did. Survival of the fittest is about reproduction, not fighting to the death. Submission is often a part of reproduction.
Turning the other cheek and loving thy neighbour (with or without reproduction) do make our society - and humanity by extension - more fit for survival.

“If you had half a brain, wouldn't you have realized after the second time, that it was you, not God?” -- riVeRraT (see context here)
“The endearing controvertist! One needs to become acute in the ploys of his kind.” -- ThreeDogs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Phat, posted 01-14-2008 11:26 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 249 of 329 (791099)
09-10-2016 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Phat
09-09-2016 9:39 PM


Re: What Is Scripture?
Phat writes:
Definition writes:
the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible.
When Paul told Timothy that "all scripture is given by inspiration of God" do you think he meant the letters that he was going to write next week?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Phat, posted 09-09-2016 9:39 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 09-10-2016 7:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 259 of 329 (791131)
09-11-2016 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Phat
09-10-2016 7:57 PM


Re: What Is Scripture?
Phat writes:
If Paul tells Timothy that scripture is inspired by God, what would you expect Timothys next questions to be?
A) Paul, do I believe everything you say or write? How do I test for integrity?
B) I have no questions. Paul tells me its from God, I believe Paul.
C) Do I believe what I feel or should I look for evidence?
His next question should be, "How are you defining scripture?" As you seem to understand, Paul was probably referring primarily to the Old Testament (and probably some non-canonical books) but not anything that he had written.
Of course Timothy and you should test what Paul wrote for integrity and look for evidence. You should always look for evidence.
Phat writes:
My only question to you is this: Will you ever believe or will you wait until an apple hits you on the head?
If an apple can hit me on the head, I'll wait for it to happen. I'm not going to believe that an apple has hit me until it does.
But your point of view seems to be that apples can't fall - i.e. there can't be evidence. In that case, why should I believe what you believe? Why not the Hindu gods or the native American gods?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 09-10-2016 7:57 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Phat, posted 09-13-2016 12:04 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 263 of 329 (791248)
09-13-2016 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Phat
09-13-2016 12:04 AM


Re: What Is Scripture?
Phat writes:
Why would Timothy even think of testing Paul's integrity?
Because Paul was human.
Phat writes:
Do you test the integrity of those whom you hand money to?
If you mean homeless people, of course I don't. They're not trying to sell me anything, so integrity doesn't enter into it. If you mean business people, of course I do. It's buyer beware, isn't it?
Phat writes:
Do you have any close friends whom you regularly test for integrity?
Yes, I have friends who - to put it politely - you can't believe everything they say. In some cases they're joking; in some cases they may be deluding themselves; in some cases they may be trying to delude me. So yes, I have to test what they say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Phat, posted 09-13-2016 12:04 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 270 of 329 (791613)
09-18-2016 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Phat
09-17-2016 3:17 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
Phat writes:
Just because someone claims a name does not make them part of a family.
What kind of family rejects somebody who wants to be a member?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Phat, posted 09-17-2016 3:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 09-19-2016 8:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 274 of 329 (791634)
09-19-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
09-19-2016 8:38 AM


Re: Family Ties
Phat writes:
What is the difference between a club and a family?
One of the primary differences is that a club can revoke your membership; a family can not. Your father is always your father, whether he "disowns" you or not.
Phat writes:
Is a child in a family expected to follow or adhere to the belief of his/her parents or are they just as accepted for being the contrarian...the rebel?
Clubs and families both have rules. Both may or may not enforce all of the rules strictly. The difference lies in the permanence of the enforcement (see above).
Phat writes:
Were the father adopting children, would or should he care what culture they were from? Whether they had been in prison or not? Whether they were honest or not? If they were mentally challenged and had special needs which may require more of his time and money?
A father would take those factors into account. (If they didn't, there wouldn't be a preponderance of "difficult" children waiting to be adopted.) In a club, any of those factors might be grounds for rejecting an application.
So, is Christianity a family or a club?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 09-19-2016 8:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 282 of 329 (791721)
09-20-2016 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
09-19-2016 7:16 PM


Re: How should we understand Scripture?
Faith writes:
Do you actually think Paul would have called anything other than scripture itself "God breathed" or "inspired" -- which means breathed by the Holy Spirit?
As I asked Phat: Do you actually think Paul was talking about his own writings? The epistles that he hadn't even written yet?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 09-19-2016 7:16 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by kbertsche, posted 09-20-2016 2:03 PM ringo has replied
 Message 284 by Phat, posted 09-20-2016 2:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 293 of 329 (791780)
09-21-2016 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by kbertsche
09-20-2016 2:03 PM


Re: How should we understand Scripture?
kbertsche writes:
But according to 2 Peter, Paul's writings were also considered by the early church to be Scripture:
Yes, 2 Peter calls Paul's epistles "scriptures" - i.e. writings. What else would they be called? But 2 Peter doesn't explicitly call Paul's epistles "inspired by God", does it? My question isn't whether the early church considered Paul's writings inspired. It's whether Paul himself considered them inspired when he wrote to Timothy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by kbertsche, posted 09-20-2016 2:03 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by kbertsche, posted 09-21-2016 6:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 294 of 329 (791781)
09-21-2016 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Phat
09-20-2016 2:30 PM


Re: How should we understand Scripture?
Phat writes:
Of course we had no reporter on the scene, camera and mic in hand...so we must use other ways to judge Pauls integrity and mental stability.
What means are you using?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Phat, posted 09-20-2016 2:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 310 of 329 (791821)
09-22-2016 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by kbertsche
09-21-2016 6:17 PM


Re: How should we understand Scripture?
kbertsche writes:
So yes, the early church seems to have viewed Paul's writings as divinely inspired, just like they did the OT.
I don't see how the early church has any relevance to what I asked. There were already disputes in the early church about what was canonical.
What I asked was whether PAUL thought HIS OWN writings were inspired (before he wrote them). Another way of asking would be, "How full of himself was he?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by kbertsche, posted 09-21-2016 6:17 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
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