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Author | Topic: Rationalising The Irrational - Hardcore Theists Apply Within | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
the hanks ass stuff is amusing and showcases how non believers may view the rules that some believers may insist on, but also minimizes the passion and reason for belief from our standpoint. The box that you put God in is different from my perspective.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
We see that the more passionate the belief the deeper the delusion and the more the deluded are then prepared to act irrationally on their beliefs. Which would be true if He didnt exist. The Bible talks of delusion...(not that you are impressed) and it talks of those who believe the Lie as being deluded. It also says God will send the delusion. The reason is that people had no love for the truth. Your truth is based solely on physical verifiable evidence. The reason for accepting evidence must be contemplated. I believe that we accept what we want to accept. You dont have to accept any unproved thing if you dont want to. Let me ask you this....if there were evidence that Jesus was God, would you worship Him or would you find an excuse to oppose Him. (Hypothetical Question)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Lemme get this straight. Assuming that Jesus was God...not a spaghetti monster. Not a creation of your brain. Not a character in a book.
You seem to think that if such a thing as a Creator of all seen and unseen were in human form and in the room next to you you would simply stroll over to him and ask questions? Did it ever occur to you that you would not be on His level? Just sayin..and keep in mind we are being hypothetical for the purpose of this argument. Lets get even more hypothetical. Say you turn this question back to me. First, describe to me the character and nature of a hypothetical God that YOU create. Then I'll tell you my responseChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
so what sort of questions would you ask Him? And can you imagine what sort of questions He might ask you?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Why does He feel a need to be worshiped? He may say that worship is totally voluntary. He may feel offended if you ignored Him and turned on the football game IF He was trying to have a conversation with you, however.
If I did oppose Him, how would that affect Him? He may say that opposing Him would not affect Him but it might affect YOU. Upon further reflection of the worship question, He may say that worship causes you to focus. Worship is for our benefit...not His. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes:
First, describe to me the character and nature of a hypothetical God that YOU create.A being that created all that is seen and unseen would probably be fairly aloof from much of its creation. Only if It wanted to be. Perhaps It would want to be involved. He wouldn't be impressed if it "worshiped" Him. Perhaps He would be proud. Perhaps He would feel that the creation was better off worshiping Him rather than gold, fast cars, or faster women. He wouldn't feel the need to destroy it, or to create a fiction in His own mind about sending His Son to "save" it from Himself. He may think that a free willed creation was capable of destroying itself. He may also feel that sending His Son as a messenger would be the only way to preserve the free will.. Perhaps this creation meant a lot to Him and He didn't want to simply destroy this pot and start a new one. He wanted the intellectual and moral development to potentially continue without directly interfering and making the vessel perfect. We have argued before about the hole in the front yard being an "attractive nuisance". Perhaps the hole had to be there to allow the creation the challenge and personal growth of avoiding it.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So why do I need the distraction of a god to help me focus? What would you be focused on? Why is a god a distraction? Is a wife a distraction from a football game? Is an attractive wife as much of a distraction? Can God make Himself attractive? Moreso than the nuisances which take our time and money and fool us? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Is there anything that would distinguish the God you believe in from a deity that doesn't exist? Yes. Your free will.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
He is free to believe in the Deity that doesnt exist and in fact differentiates it from the one I believe in. My Deity exists.
And as you have stated before, it is impossible to measure the supernatural ...
How is free will evidence of anything supernatural? The supernatural is limited to belief. There is no evidence. Essentially one side believes in evidence. The belief is in lack of evidence...or a Deity that does not exist. The other side has only their belief. They believe in a Deity that exists. You cant say that my belief is incorrect. You can only say that it is likely incorrect if you adhere to the criteria of evidence. For you my belief may be indistinguishable from a non existent Deity. For me, it is not. That is essentially the difference. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Yes. The question was
quote:and my answer was that ones own belief...ones freewilled belief, opinion, or spirituality is what distinguishes existence vs non-existence of a Deity. Obviously we cannot have evidence of the supernatural, but we ourselves are the living evidence of our beliefs through our actions. Not to say that Christian actions are any better or worse than atheist actions...but they are different in that Christians give the credit to a God in whom they believe while atheists do not. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Can you please explain how people are incapable of believing in a deity that doesn't exist? Yes. Scripture explains it in Revelation. The Beast which you saw once was, now is not, and yet is for those whose names are not written in the book of life. Does the Beast exist, apart from a character in literature? Answer that one.
If the supernatural is real, why couldn't we have evidence of it? What tests do you propose we use?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Do you understand what the burden of proof is? Perhaps not. Enlighten me.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
But of course that is factually wrong. Your belief has nothing to do with distinguishing anything other than your personal belief. It does not distinguish between existence or non-existence of anything in reality. Not true. What you do shows who you are. You can preach till the cows come home but if you dont do anything but dance and sing about it, nobody sees anything other than a flake. It is a fact that we represent Jesus Christ here on earth. Or do you represent the Elks Club? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I'll throw that question out to all of you. Who do you represent?
If you say you represent humanity, thats honest enough. If you say you represent yourself, thats also a possibility. jar, who do you represent?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Good post, by the way!
Good advice also. Coming from you it means a lot! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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