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Author Topic:   The philosophy behind The Twelve Steps
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 86 of 108 (496611)
01-29-2009 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Larni
01-29-2009 9:52 AM


Ghosts of Christmas past....
I did'nt mean that every habit requires a full awareness of ones past life. In my case, I had emotinal issues that seemingly kept me from growing up. (Peter Pan syndrome?) Delving into my past allowed these issues to become consciously rationalized. Now, the information is all available to me, but I still have to make the efforts required to mature. It is not easy, since it is much more comfortable to blame external situations and causes rather than to take the responsibility to grow on ones own self will.
I am making progress, however. (BTW this also ties in with my addictions! )

"All that we call human history--money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery--[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."--C.S.Lewis
* * * * * * * * * *
“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog." -GK Chesterson

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 87 of 108 (628732)
08-12-2011 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by dwise1
05-08-2007 2:33 AM


Re: My Perspective On The Twelve Steps
dwise1 writes:
AA gets public funding, right?
From AA Website:
quote:
There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
It has been several years since I first made this topic, and I still struggle with a gambling addiction. I joined Gamblers Anonymous back in January of 2011, and managed to be "sober" from gambling fgor a good 3 months. Initially, I made the decision to start gambling again and was in no way powerless. Now, however, despite trying to stop, I again find myself buying lottery tickets even when I previously told myself to stop! Analyzing the reasons and the thought process involved, I conclude that I prefer fantasy over reality and wish (pray, even) that the fantasy will become reality. Many Christians have this same tendency and for many of us, God bestowing favor is a necessary and expected part of life. After all, He has so much it won't hurt Him to favor us...now will it?
Does anyone have any recent experiences regarding struggles with addictions and the process utilized to control and/or stop them?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 89 of 108 (628744)
08-12-2011 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Larni
01-29-2009 9:52 AM


Cognitive Dissonance
Larni writes:
We don't have to know why we started smoking, but we need to konw what is going on now to make any changes.
Is it common to become addicted to ones own body chemicals?
Aside from preferring a fantasy, why would it be such cognitive dissonance for me to quit a habit that in reality offers me very little external benefit?

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 91 of 108 (706267)
09-09-2013 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Larni
01-29-2009 9:52 AM


Patrick Carnes
Larni, haver you ever heard of dr.Patrick Carnes? He is nationally known as a sex addictions recovery expert, and he makes a valid and timely comment on how the recovery process works.
Currently, I am at day # 71 of a particular addiction(Carnes says that all addiction follow similar basic patterns and that recovery takes time due to the fact that the brain must reset itself and regrow healthier neural pathways...comments? )and according to Carnes I should begin dealing with a flood of unresolved feelings at roughly day 130 or so, and also health issues.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by frako, posted 09-09-2013 5:52 AM Phat has replied
 Message 93 by Larni, posted 09-09-2013 6:28 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 94 of 108 (706359)
09-10-2013 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Larni
09-09-2013 6:28 PM


Emotional Modulation
I had to look this term up (largely so that I could have a conversation with you )
This is what I found:
quote:
Modulation of the highs and lows of emotion seems essential to health.
Emotional modulation means to reduce the intensity of an emotional experience and/or the length of time one experiences a dominant emotion. For example, anger is part of life which we all experience. Yet, if we often go into an uncontrollable rage, we must learn to control such extremes. If we experience anger over a prolonged period of time and become hostile persons susceptible to anger at the drop of a hat we must learn modulation.
The root of the word emotion is motere, the Latin verb "to move" and the prefix "e" to connote "move away." Some believe emotions guide us in facing predicaments and challenges too important to leave to intellect alone. Each emotion offers a distinctive readiness to act. Paul Ekman, of the University of California at San Francisco, says four emotions are recognized by people in cultures around the world:
Anger
Fear
Sadness
Joy
Carnes says that after the 130 day mark, the recovering addict is hit with a flood of emotions...which were previously being suppressed and/or masked by the addiction. Personally, I had five years worth of audio daily reports(Diaries) in which I commented on the feelings and observations of the moment. Before sobriety I noted that I was suppressing emotions and was in a state of denial...knowing that I had to do something about the addiction yet unable to do so in the present moment...(hence the addiction). Later, after sobriety was achieved, I was able to be honest with myself for the first time in a long time. (jar used to comment that I seemed to prefer fantasy over reality...a kernel of truth) At any rate, reality now tells us that I have 72 days sober...and that at roughly day # 130 or so, the emotional tsunami will hit me. I hope to be able to report on it here.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 95 of 108 (706360)
09-10-2013 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by frako
09-09-2013 5:52 AM


Re: Patrick Carnes
frako writes:
cocaine addicts for example have one of the worst problems, when even after years just hearing the word can cause their brains to release endorphins giving you a slight high and craving for the drug.
Keyword: Slight
Triggers will occur, but there is a difference between feeling a trigger and shifting into the automatic addictive process which one is unable to reverse(kinda like getting too close to a black hole)
The brain will reset itself after 130 days of sobriety, and after that the triggers and emotions will peak...but once a client gets through that, triggers alone will not cause relapses.
Carnes did comment that relapse is more common in the 2nd six months of sobriety than it is in the 1st 6 months...for those who make the initial 130 days.
Edited by Phat, : fixed

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 97 of 108 (791890)
09-26-2016 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by frako
09-09-2013 5:52 AM


Re: Patrick Carnes
Ironically I am again at Day 71...same as the longest period of sobriety i ever had in twenty years. (I relapsed soon after that post)
What will be scary is the territory I'm about to experience. I already feel some deep deep pain,fear,depression, and anxiety.
Day 130-Day 180 will be tough, according to experts. (For me that will be the period
November 27th or so thru Christmas and climaxing in January and February 2017.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by frako, posted 09-09-2013 5:52 AM frako has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 98 of 108 (791917)
09-26-2016 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by frako
09-10-2013 5:14 AM


Frako 2013
frako 2013 writes:
Though i am building a fitness room should be finished today or tomorrow go to paint the walls and put in a carpet then i can start hauling the equipment in. Maybe i'll fall in to some kind of fitness addiction and i'll stop smoking but i doubt it.
So did you ever finish that room? Do you use it? Hows the smoking coming along? Just curious...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by frako, posted 09-10-2013 5:14 AM frako has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 99 of 108 (793169)
10-22-2016 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Larni
09-09-2013 6:28 PM


Day 97
concerning emotional regulation, would you agree with the hypothesis that sobriety as a necessary form of emotional (and physical) regulation allows neuro plasticity to change the brain back into a healthy state...thus avoiding built in triggers from having to fire?
This is Day #97 for me.
I am a bit grumpy but overall confidant that I am on the right path.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Larni, posted 09-09-2013 6:28 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 10-22-2016 1:42 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 101 of 108 (794652)
11-18-2016 6:57 PM


Day 124 and a painful response
This is day 124 of sobriety. I just received word from Safeway...m,y former employer...that they have rejected my Step 2 Grievance. This really hurt. I needed that job and the money and insurance that it provided. To be honest, at age 57 I feel I have earned this level of support, and to finally have it taken from me is embarrassing, painful, and normally unfair. The only reason I refuse to call it unfair is because I prayed about this, and trust that Gods will is done.
What I don't understand is why God wants me broke and needy after I have worked so hard to stay sober for the longest time in twenty years!
Yes...I have been looking for other jobs, but there are none that give me what I had. I am going to my CR Group meeting tonight and will get my 120 day chip, which symbolically means a lot---as i know that scientifically i am healing---but I can honestly say that I am hurting right now.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by RAZD, posted 11-18-2016 10:21 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(2)
Message 103 of 108 (796143)
12-23-2016 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by RAZD
11-18-2016 10:21 PM


Day 159--Resolved To Face The Future Sober
Phat,Post 97 writes:
What will be scary is the territory I'm about to experience. I already feel some deep deep pain,fear,depression, and anxiety.
Day 130-Day 180 will be tough, according to experts. (For me that will be the period
November 27th or so thru Christmas and climaxing in January and February 2017.
Phat,Post 101 writes:
This is day 124 of sobriety. I just received word from Safeway...m,y former employer...that they have rejected my Step 2 Grievance. This really hurt. I needed that job and the money and insurance that it provided. To be honest, at age 57 I feel I have earned this level of support, and to finally have it taken from me is embarrassing, painful, and normally unfair. The only reason I refuse to call it unfair is because I prayed about this, and trust that Gods will is done.
What I don't understand is why God wants me broke and needy after I have worked so hard to stay sober for the longest time in twenty years!
Yes...I have been looking for other jobs, but there are none that give me what I had. I am going to my CR Group meeting tonight and will get my 120 day chip, which symbolically means a lot---as i know that scientifically i am healing---but I can honestly say that I am hurting right now.
Today is Day 159 and I got my job back this last week! I am trusting God still...now more than ever...though I still have many questions. I wont say that God made me sober yet I wont take all of the credit for myself either. It was and is an ongoing daily communion. Now that I have my job back fully restored with insurance and benefits, perhaps God wants to test me to see how strong I remain in my sobriety. The feelings and emotional awareness that I have now is stronger than at any time in the past. The experts say that this is a normal process of healing unresolved feelings and emotions that may well have accelerated the addiction in the first place many years ago.
As of today--Friday December 23rd I am resolved..determined...and full of joy. May everyone at EvC have a Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays with friends and family and a joyful New Year!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by RAZD, posted 11-18-2016 10:21 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 105 of 108 (813938)
07-02-2017 5:42 PM


Day 350 and quite an ongoing journey
While most of my online diary is over at Addiction By Definition I found myself reading my older posts in this topic, started way back in 2007 with my first attempts at quitting. Although I'm now convinced that Recovery is more about healing the brain than it is about willpower, I realize that the psychology and the pharmacology go hand in hand. The brain needs time to heal. The decision to stay sober is more psychological. As I mentioned on Day 348, I almost relapsed but for the grace of God and realize that a lot of my future recovery hinges on mindfulness and awareness of personal responsibility. If I shoot myself in the foot, I cannot very well blame the gun!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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 Message 108 by ringo, posted 07-03-2017 12:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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