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Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Rationalising The Irrational - Hardcore Theists Apply Within | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Do you understand what the burden of proof is? Perhaps not. Enlighten me.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Phat writes: quote: ...and my answer was that ones own belief...ones freewilled belief, opinion, or spirituality is what distinguishes existence vs non-existence of a Deity. Have you ever stubbed your toe, Phat? You know. You're walking along, certainly fully believing that every step you take is going to be on solid ground. I mean, if you didn't believe such a thing... you'd take some caution to look, right? So off you go, in fully 100% committed belief that the ground you're walking on is just fine. You believe so much, you don't even have to think about it, even. And then... blam! Your toe catches a part of the ground you didn't notice and you stub your toe. Therefore, your freewilled belief, opinion or 100% acceptance did not distinguish existence vs. non-existence of solid ground beneath your feet. If your freewilled belief and opinion alone isn't enough to keep you from stubbing your toe, what makes you think it alone is good enough to save you from Hell? The fact is, Phat... you're falling into the very pitfall you try to put everyone else in.The devil's best trick is to convince you that he doesn't exist. His second best trick is to convince you that you're on the "right" path, when all you have to do is actually look around to see the darkness you've led yourself into. If God's good and real, He has no use for tricks or subterfuge. The fact that you're insisting that God must remain hidden in order to believe in Him... is a fact that shows nothing other than you being on a non-Godly path. It's the path of a trickster who wants you to be on that path and stop thinking about getting onto the right path. What trickster? Maybe the devil.Maybe some bad people. Maybe yourself. But that really doesn't matter.What does matter, and is very clear, is that a path without verification is a path of gullibility. A real, good God would not create such a path where His loyal followers could so easily be taken unawares by any other trickster. Stop being led blindy by who-knows-what is guiding you.Use your God-given talents to follow God when you know He's there. Follow love, friendship, and honour.Stop wasting time on tradition, unknowns, and idolatry.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Yes. The question wasquote:and my answer was that ones own belief...ones freewilled belief, opinion, or spirituality is what distinguishes existence vs non-existence of a Deity. But of course that is factually wrong. Your belief has nothing to do with distinguishing anything other than your personal belief. It does not distinguish between existence or non-existence of anything in reality.
Phat writes: Obviously we cannot have evidence of the supernatural, but we ourselves are the living evidence of our beliefs through our actions. Not to say that Christian actions are any better or worse than atheist actions...but they are different in that Christians give the credit to a God in whom they believe while atheists do not. Again, that is simply factually wrong and also does not help answer the question at all. You even point that out when you post "but they are different in that Christians give the credit to a God in whom they believe while atheists do not." which shows again that the only difference is in the belief of the person and has nothing to do with the actual existence or non-existence of any deity.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
But of course that is factually wrong. Your belief has nothing to do with distinguishing anything other than your personal belief. It does not distinguish between existence or non-existence of anything in reality. Not true. What you do shows who you are. You can preach till the cows come home but if you dont do anything but dance and sing about it, nobody sees anything other than a flake. It is a fact that we represent Jesus Christ here on earth. Or do you represent the Elks Club? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I'll throw that question out to all of you. Who do you represent?
If you say you represent humanity, thats honest enough. If you say you represent yourself, thats also a possibility. jar, who do you represent?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Good post, by the way!
Good advice also. Coming from you it means a lot! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar writes: Not true. What you do shows who you are. You can preach till the cows come home but if you dont do anything but dance and sing about it, nobody sees anything other than a flake. But of course that is factually wrong. Your belief has nothing to do with distinguishing anything other than your personal belief. It does not distinguish between existence or non-existence of anything in reality. It is a fact that we represent Jesus Christ here on earth. Or do you represent the Elks Club? Try to understand the question. What you are is irrelevant. It has no bearing whatsoever on the existence or non-existence of any God.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I think you're misreading that:
Scripture explains it in Revelation. The Beast which you saw once was, now is not, and yet is for those whose names are not written in the book of life.quote:It says that unbelievers will wonder, not that they will still disbelieve. And notice that they will see the Beast - i.e. they will have evidence.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar, who do you represent? Again, that is totally irrelevant to the topic. Why do you keep asking irrelevant questions?
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: What you are is irrelevant. It has no bearing whatsoever on the existence or non-existence of any God. Matt 16:13-18 writes: NIV- When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" 14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why do you keep asking irrelevant questions? To get you to tell me who you represent. For the record, I'll just mark down that you say its irrelevant. Or I can ask you again. Who do you represent in these discussions? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Did what Jesus say have any bearing on the existence or non existence of God? No.
Phat writes: Does it matter who Jesus is? For this topic? No, it does not matter at all.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
What does matter, and is very clear, is that a path without verification is a path of gullibility. A real, good God would not create such a path where His loyal followers could so easily be taken unawares by any other trickster. And I would agree. So about verification....Who Do You Represent?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: To get you to tell me who you represent. For the record, I'll just mark down that you say its irrelevant. Or I can ask you again. Who do you represent in these discussions? In any discussion related to things without factual evidence to support a position I can only represent myself.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
In any discussion related to things without factual evidence to support a position I can only represent myself.
Is it possible to belong to a club and ignore certain bylaws since the bylaws have no evidence? (Yes) Is it right to call yourself an Elk without believing in the Elk bylaws? Is it more honest to represent the Elks when talking about what the club stands for or to represent yourself? (The Elks)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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